Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd (Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 1 p.m. with the Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) in the Chair

The Presiding Officer: Good afternoon. The National Assembly for Wales is now in session.

Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da. Dyma ddechrau trafodion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister

The Presiding Officer: Thank you, First Minister. On that very positive note, we will now move on to questions from the party leaders.

Y Llywydd: Diolch ichi, Brif Weinidog. Ar y pwynt cadarnhaol iawn hwnnw, symudwn ymlaen yn awr at gwestiynau gan arweinwyr y pleidiau.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): First Minister, we had a referendum last March on further law-making powers for this institution. You said then that the point of the referendum was to give us the tools to do the job. Seven months after the election, we have had only one piece of legislation to scrutinise in Plenary. In your legislative statement, you promised that there would be three by December. In Scotland, six Bills have come before the Parliament. Why, therefore, has your Government been so slow in bringing legislation forward?

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. Davies): Brif Weinidog, cawsom refferendwm fis Mawrth diwethaf ar bwerau deddfu pellach i’r sefydliad hwn. Dywedasoch ar y pryd mai pwrpas y refferendwm oedd rhoi inni yr arfau i wneud y gwaith. Saith mis wedi’r etholiad, dim ond un darn o ddeddfwriaeth yr ydym wedi ei gael i’w graffu yn y cyfarfod llawn. Yn eich datganiad deddfwriaethol, addawsoch y byddai yna dri erbyn mis Rhagfyr. Yn yr Alban, mae chwe Bil wedi dod gerbron y Senedd. Pam, felly, mae eich Llywodraeth wedi bod mor araf i ddwyn deddfwriaeth ymlaen?

The First Minister: We have published a detailed legislative programme, which contains a number of Bills that will be taken through during the course of this Assembly.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol fanwl sy’n cynnwys nifer o Filiau a fydd yn cael eu cyflwyno yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn.

Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, the question that I asked you was why you have been so slow in bringing them forward. According to the timetable for your own legislative programme, you were due to bring three Bills to Plenary by December, but we have received only one, which was presented last week. However, that is not the only area in which your Government has been slow to act. We have a review into microbusinesses, business rates, and another into city status. You supposedly went before the people of Wales in May this year with the most comprehensive manifesto—those were your words, not mine—that had been put before the people of Wales. However, all you seem to be doing is reviewing, dithering and delaying. Why are you keeping Welsh businesses waiting?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Brif Weinidog, y cwestiwn y gofynnais ichi oedd pam ydych wedi bod mor araf i’w dwyn ymlaen. Yn ôl amserlen eich rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol eich hun, yr oeddech i fod i gyflwyno tri Bil i’r cyfarfod llawn erbyn mis Rhagfyr, ond dim ond un yr ydym wedi’i gael, a gyflwynwyd yr wythnos ddiwethaf. Fodd bynnag, nid dyna’r unig faes lle y mae’ch Llywodraeth wedi bod yn araf i gymryd camau. Mae gennym adolygiad i ficrofusnesau, trethi busnes, ac un arall i statws dinas. Yn ôl yr honiad, aethoch gerbron pobl Cymru fis Mai eleni gyda’r maniffesto mwyaf cynhwysfawr—eich geiriau chi oedd y rheiny, nid fy rhai i—a roddwyd gerbron pobl Cymru. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ymddangos mai’r cyfan a wnewch yw adolygu, anwadalu a llusgo traed. Pam ydych yn cadw busnesau Cymru yn aros?

The First Minister: He seems to forget the £55 million that has been invested in small and medium-sized enterprises in Wales, the £90 million in a centrally retained capital fund, and the £1.4 billion that was announced yesterday for schools. Every time we come to the Chamber, the leader of the opposition continues with his line about health and the alleged £1 billion gap, which is something that his party used during the election campaign in May. However, despite spending twice as much as the party on this side of the Chamber, his party was still unsuccessful. When will he learn that he needs to be more than a one-trick pony?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n ymddangos ei fod yn anghofio’r £55 miliwn sydd wedi’i fuddsoddi mewn busnesau bach a chanolig yng Nghymru, y £90 miliwn sydd mewn cronfa cyfalaf a gedwir yn ganolog, a’r £1.4 biliwn a gyhoeddwyd ddoe ar gyfer ysgolion. Bob tro y down i’r Siambr, mae arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn parhau gyda’i linell am iechyd a’r bwlch £1 biliwn honedig, sydd yn rhywbeth a ddefnyddiwyd gan ei blaid yn ystod ymgyrch yr etholiad ym mis Mai. Fodd bynnag, er gwario ddwywaith gymaint â’r blaid ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr, yr oedd ei blaid yn dal yn aflwyddiannus. Pryd y gwnaiff ef ddysgu bod yn rhaid iddo fod yn fwy na ‘chaseg un tric’?

Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, I have not mentioned health in the two questions that I put to you, but I am glad that you have mentioned health, because the health boards have indicated that there will be a £50 million deficit at the end of this financial year. Waiting times are going up. Therefore, if you want to talk about health, I am quite happy to do so time and again. I notice that there are representatives from the Royal College of Nursing in the public gallery. That organisation has noted that over half of its members wish to leave the Welsh NHS. [Interruption.]

Andrew R.T. Davies: Brif Weinidog, nid wyf wedi crybwyll iechyd yn y ddau gwestiwn a ofynnais ichi, ond yr wyf yn falch eich bod wedi crybwyll iechyd gan fod y byrddau iechyd wedi nodi y bydd diffyg o £50 miliwn ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Mae amseroedd aros yn cynyddu. Felly, os dymunwch siarad am iechyd, yr wyf yn eithaf hapus gwneud hynny dro ar ôl tro. Yr wyf yn sylwi bod cynrychiolwyr o’r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn yr oriel. Mae’r sefydliad hwnnw wedi nodi bod dros hanner o’i aelodau yn dymuno gadael gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol Cymru. [Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Llywydd: Trefn.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Why, First Minister, are you like the proverbial bad workman, who blames his tools for doing such a poor job? It is time that you acted and showed leadership in order to lead the people of Wales.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Pam, Brif Weinidog, ydych chi fel y saer gwael diarhebol, sy’n beio ei arfau am wneud gwaith mor wael? Mae’n bryd i chi fwrw ati a dangos arweiniad er mwyn arwain pobl Cymru.

The First Minister: I will tell the leader of the opposition something: his party’s mantra, which he keeps repeating in the Chamber, cost the health spokesperson of his party his job when he lost his seat in May. I know that that was an advantage to him, because he finds himself where he is now. However, let me give him a challenge: one of the reasons why nurses in Wales are so worried is because of his party’s desire to cut the pay of nurses in Wales, thereby ensuring that nurses in Wales are paid less to do exactly the same job as those in England. This is something that was announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last week. I ask him now whether he will condemn the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stand up for Welsh nurses, and will he ensure that Welsh nurses are paid the same as every other nurse in the UK? [Interruption.]

Y Prif Weinidog: Dywedaf rywbeth wrth arweinydd yr wrthblaid: talodd llefarydd iechyd ei blaid â’i swydd pan gollodd ei sedd ym mis Mai o achos mantra ei blaid, sy’n cael ei ail-adrodd ganddo drwy’r amser yn y Siambr. Gwn fod hynny yn fantais iddo, oherwydd y lle y mae ef yn awr. Fodd bynnag, gadewch i mi roi her iddo: un o’r rhesymau pam y mae nyrsys yng Nghymru mor bryderus yw oherwydd awydd ei blaid i dorri cyflogau nyrsys yng Nghymru, ac felly i sicrhau bod nyrsys yng Nghymru yn ennill llai o gyflog na’r rheiny yn Lloegr am wneud yr un swydd. Dyma rywbeth a gyhoeddwyd gan Ganghellor y Trysorlys yr wythnos ddiwethaf. Gofynnaf iddo yn awr: a fyddai’n condemnio Canghellor y Trysorlys, yn sefyll cornel nyrsys Cymru, a sicrhau bod nyrsys Cymru yn ennill yr un cyflog â phob nyrs arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig? [Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order. You have had three questions. [Interruption.] Order. Will you please quieten down and listen to the leader of Plaid Cymru, Ieuan Wyn Jones?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Yr ydych wedi cael tri chwestiwn. [Torri ar draws.] Trefn. A wnewch chi ymdawelu a gwrando ar arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Ieuan Wyn Jones, os gwelwch yn dda?

The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Yes, you might learn something by doing so. [Laughter.]

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Ie, efallai y gwnewch chi ddysgu rhywfaint drwy wneud hynny. [Chwerthin.]

First Minister, as you know, during the current comprehensive spending review period, the Welsh block grant will reduce by 11.3 per cent, or, in real terms, £1.9 billion. We know that the Wales Audit Office has indicated that, as a result of those cuts, 21,000 jobs will be lost in the public sector in Wales. We know that, as a result of the economic crisis worsening since May, thousands more jobs will be lost in the private sector. If that was not bad enough, the autumn statement added even more gloom to the doom. First Minister, what assessment have you made in relation to the announcement of further public spending cuts by the Chancellor last week?

Brif Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, yn ystod yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant presennol, bydd grant bloc Cymru yn lleihau drwy 11.3 y cant, neu, mewn termau real, £1.9 biliwn. Gwyddom fod Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru wedi arwyddo y bydd 21,000 o swyddi yn cael eu colli yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i’r toriadau hynny. Gwyddom, o ganlyniad i’r argyfwng economaidd yn gwaethygu ers mis Mai, y bydd miloedd mwy o swyddi yn cael eu colli yn y sector preifat. Fel pe na bai hynny’n ddigon gwael, ychwanegodd datganiad yr hydref hyd yn oed yn fwy at y digalondid. Brif Weinidog, pa asesiad a wnaethoch o ran y cyhoeddiad am doriadau pellach mewn gwariant cyhoeddus gan y Canghellor yr wythnos diwethaf?

1.15 p.m.

The First Minister: One problem that we have is that we still do not know what the revenue consequentials of the statement will be. The UK Government cannot tell us. We have asked and asked the Treasury, but it seems unable to tell us how much will accrue, in terms of revenue consequentials, to Wales. I do not know whether the Treasury knows itself where the money is coming from. That is obviously holding us back.

Y Prif Weinidog: Un broblem sydd gennym yw nad ydym dal yn gwybod beth fydd refeniw canlyniadol y datganiad. Nid yw Llywodraeth y DU yn gallu dweud wrthym. Rydym wedi gofyn a gofyn i'r Trysorlys, ond mae'n ymddangos nad yw’n gallu dweud wrthym faint gaiff ei gronni, o ran refeniw canlyniadol, i Gymru. Ni wn yw’r Trysorlys ei hun yn gwybod o le mae’r arian yn dod. Mae hynny’n amlwg yn ein dal yn ôl.

In terms of investment in jobs, we have the £38.9 million consequential following the announcement on the freezing of council tax in England, the £90 million that was announced as part of the centrally retained capital fund, the £55 million that is going directly to small and medium-sized enterprises as a result of the announcement made by the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science, and the £1.4 billion that was announced for schools yesterday. That is a substantial investment in the future of Wales, and it will help to retain and create many jobs.

O ran buddsoddi mewn swyddi, mae gennym y £38.9 miliwn canlyniadol yn dilyn y cyhoeddiad am rewi'r dreth gyngor yn Lloegr, y £90 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd fel rhan o'r gronfa cyfalaf a gedwir yn ganolog, y £55 miliwn sy’n mynd yn uniongyrchol i fentrau bach a chanolig o ganlyniad i'r cyhoeddiad a wnaed gan y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth, a’r £1.4 biliwn a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer ysgolion ddoe. Mae hynny'n fuddsoddiad sylweddol yn nyfodol Cymru, a bydd yn helpu i gadw a chreu llawer o swyddi.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Of course, the £1.4 billion that was announced yesterday still depends on local authorities putting forward business cases for their schools. If those business cases are not satisfactory, the work will not go ahead. I believe that that is the position with regard to yesterday’s statement. The question that I asked you, First Minister, was this: what is the impact on Wales from the public spending cuts announced in the autumn statement? The Chancellor said in the statement that there would be further, substantial cuts to public spending in Wales in 2015 and 2016. He is saying that they will be on the same scale as the cuts that we have already faced. Therefore, in addition to the £1.9 billion that we have already lost as a result of the current cuts, we will lose another £800 million in 2015 and 2016. What assessment have you made of the impact of those cuts on your policies?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Wrth gwrs, mae’r £1.4 biliwn a gyhoeddwyd ddoe yn dal i ddibynnu ar awdurdodau lleol yn cyflwyno achosion busnes ar gyfer eu hysgolion. Os nad yw’r achosion busnes hynny’n foddhaol, ni fydd y gwaith yn mynd yn ei flaen. Credaf mai dyna'r sefyllfa o ran datganiad ddoe. Y cwestiwn a ofynnais i chi, Brif Weinidog, oedd hyn: beth yw'r effaith ar Gymru o’r toriadau i wariant cyhoeddus a gyhoeddwyd yn natganiad yr hydref? Yn y datganiad, dywedodd y Canghellor y byddai toriadau pellach sylweddol i wariant cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn 2015 a 2016. Mae'n dweud y byddant ar yr un raddfa â’r toriadau yr ydym eisoes wedi wynebu. Felly, yn ogystal â’r £1.9 biliwn yr ydym eisoes wedi golli o ganlyniad i'r toriadau presennol, byddwn yn colli £800 miliwn arall yn 2015 a 2016. Pa asesiad a wnaethoch o effaith y toriadau hynny ar eich polisïau?

The First Minister: There is no doubt that there will be a negative impact. The leader of Plaid Cymru is correct in his assertions regarding the cuts that will be made to the Welsh budget over the next few years. It is true to say that, despite the efforts that this Government will make to reduce poverty, we are fighting against a tide coming the other way, from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I come back to the point about regional pay. It was quite clear last week that the objective of the Chancellor of the Exchequer is to ensure that people in Wales and some parts of England are paid less to do the same jobs as people in the south-east of England. That is unfair and inequitable, and something that we will fight tooth and nail on these benches.

Y Prif Weinidog: Does dim amheuaeth y bydd effaith negyddol. Mae arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn gywir yn ei honiadau am y toriadau a gaiff eu gwneud i gyllideb Cymru dros y blynyddoedd nesaf. Mae'n wir i ddweud, er gwaethaf ymdrechion y Llywodraeth hon i leihau tlodi, yr ydym yn ymladd yn erbyn llanw sy’n dod y ffordd arall, o gyfeiriad Canghellor y Trysorlys. Dof yn ôl at y pwynt am gyflogau rhanbarthol. Yr oedd yn berffaith glir yr wythnos diwethaf mai amcan Canghellor y Trysorlys yw sicrhau bod pobl yng Nghymru a rhai rhannau o Loegr yn cael eu talu’n llai i wneud yr un swyddi â phobl yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae hynny'n annheg ac anghyfartal, ac yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn ymladd hyd eithaf ein gallu ar y meinciau hyn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: One way of approaching the cuts is to blame Westminster, which you have done. However, you also have a responsibility, because you are the First Minister of Wales. You said in the election that you would stand up for the people of Wales, but we have not seen much evidence of that so far. First Minister, as you have probably noticed, I have been questioning you every week on the economy, and I have been astonished and surprised at your Government’s failure to grasp the enormity of the crisis facing us. Let us try to put this in a nutshell. The Welsh economy will grow more slowly than at any time since the nineteenth century. Families will suffer job losses on a scale not seen since the 1980s. Our children and grandchildren will not have the life chances that we have had. Is it not time that we had a bold, ambitious and innovative Government fighting for the people of Wales? Does this exist within you, First Minister?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Un ffordd o ddelio â’r toriadau yw rhoi’r bai ar San Steffan, ac yr ydych wedi gwneud. Fodd bynnag, mae gennych chi gyfrifoldeb hefyd, oherwydd chi yw Prif Weinidog Cymru. Dywedasoch yn yr etholiad y byddwch yn sefyll cornel pobl Cymru, ond nid ydym wedi gweld llawer o dystiolaeth o hynny hyd yma. Brif Weinidog, fel mae'n debyg eich bod wedi sylwi, rwyf wedi bod yn eich holi chi bob wythnos am yr economi, ac yr wyf wedi rhyfeddu ac yn synnu ar fethiant eich Llywodraeth i amgyffred anferthedd yr argyfwng sy'n ein hwynebu. Gadewch inni geisio rhoi hyn yn gryno. Bydd economi Cymru yn tyfu’n fwy araf nag ar unrhyw adeg ers y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg. Bydd teuluoedd yn dioddef colledion swyddi ar raddfa nas gwelwyd ers y 1980au. Ni fydd ein plant a'n hwyrion yn cael y cyfleoedd bywyd yr ydym ni wedi'u cael. Onid yw'n hen bryd inni gael Llywodraeth feiddgar, uchelgeisiol ac arloesol yn ymladd dros bobl Cymru? A yw hyn yn bodoli ynddoch chi, Brif Weinidog?

The First Minister: The leader of Plaid Cymru seems oblivious to the fact that £1.5 billion has been announced in support for business and jobs. I have already given him the opportunity to listen to what I just said. The reality of the situation is that there is a budget before the Assembly this afternoon for jobs and growth. I offer him the opportunity to move away from the place to which he has led his party, which will be voting with the Tories this afternoon. I can promise that I will take every opportunity, as will my party, to remind the people of Wales that, when the chips are down, Plaid will side with the Tories. [Interruption.]

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n ymddangos fel pe bai arweinydd Plaid Cymru’n hollol anymwybodol o'r ffaith bod £1.5 biliwn wedi'i gyhoeddi i gefnogi busnes a swyddi. Yr wyf eisoes wedi rhoi’r cyfle iddo wrando ar yr hyn yr wyf newydd ei ddweud. Y gwir amdani yw bod cyllideb gerbron y Cynulliad y prynhawn yma ar gyfer swyddi a thwf. Yr wyf yn cynnig y cyfle iddo symud i ffwrdd o le y mae wedi arwain ei blaid, a fydd yn pleidleisio gyda'r Torïaid y prynhawn yma. Gallaf addo y byddaf yn cymryd pob cyfle, fel y bydd fy mhlaid, i atgoffa pobl Cymru, pan ddaw hi i’r pen, y bydd Plaid yn ochri gyda'r Torïaid. [Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Llywydd: Trefn.

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): First Minister, at the weekend, Sir Mansel Aylward, senior adviser to the NHS in Wales, said that he was ‘depressed and disappointed’ at the limited progress of change that the health service had achieved in the past few years. Do you agree with him?

Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Kirsty Williams): Brif Weinidog, ar y penwythnos, dywedodd Syr Mansel Aylward, uwch gynghorydd i'r GIG yng Nghymru, ei fod yn teimlo’n isel ei ysbryd a siomedig am y cynnydd cyfyngedig yn y newid a gyflawnwyd gan y gwasanaeth iechyd yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. A ydych yn cytuno ag ef?

The First Minister: No; I think that the health service in Wales has moved forward and continues to provide an excellent service to the people.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nac ydw; credaf fod y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru wedi symud ymlaen ac yn parhau i ddarparu gwasanaeth rhagorol i bobl.

Kirsty Williams: First Minister, Sir Mansel went on to say that,

Kirsty Williams: Brif Weinidog, aeth Syr Mansel ymlaen i ddweud,

‘in the past we had plenty of money and perhaps we spent it wrongly’.

yn y gorffennol, roedd gennym ddigon o arian ac efallai y gwnaethom ei gamwario.

Now, when money is tight, his warning is stark: he says that, without reform,

Nawr, pan fo arian yn dynn, mae ei rybudd yn llwm: mae’n dweud, heb ddiwygio,

‘the richer would get better...the poorer would get poorer and their health would deteriorate’.

byddai’r cyfoethocach yn cael gwell...byddai’r tlotach yn cael llai cystal bydd eu hiechyd yn dirywio.

If statements like that do not inject a sense of urgency into the Welsh Government about reforming our health service, what will?

Os nad yw datganiadau fel hynny’n yn rhoi ymdeimlad o frys i Lywodraeth Cymru am ddiwygio ein gwasanaeth iechyd, beth a wnaiff?

The First Minister: I see no evidence to support that, and I am not sure what you mean by ‘reform’. If you mean reform along the lines of what is happening in England, I can tell you that we are not going to do that; that is not what the people of Wales voted for in May. Of course, we want to ensure that the health service delivers as locally and as effectively as possible, and that is what we will be looking to do over the course of the next year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni welaf unrhyw dystiolaeth i gefnogi hynny, ac nid wyf yn sicr beth a olygwch wrth ‘diwygio’. Os ydych yn golygu diwygio tebyg i’r hyn sy'n digwydd yn Lloegr, gallaf ddweud wrthych nad ydym yn mynd i wneud hynny; nid dyna bleidleisiodd pobl Cymru amdano ym mis Mai. Wrth gwrs, yr ydym am sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth iechyd yn darparu mor lleol ac effeithiol ag sy'n bosibl, a dyna beth y bwriadwn ei wneud dros y flwyddyn nesaf.

Kirsty Williams: What Professor Aylward is saying is that poor public services do poor people down the most. First Minister, this is not the first warning of this kind from a senior adviser; back in 2004, Sir Derek Wanless was commissioned by the then Minister for health to write a report on the state of the NHS in Wales. He said that things needed to change. He said then that

Kirsty Williams: Yr hyn y mae’r Athro Aylward yn ei ddweud yw bod gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gwael yn rhoi pobl dlawd dan yr anfantais fwyaf. Brif Weinidog, nid hyn yw’r rhybudd cyntaf o'r math hwn gan uwch-gynghorydd; yn 2004, comisiynwyd Syr Derek Wanless gan y Gweinidog iechyd ar y pryd i ysgrifennu adroddiad ar gyflwr y GIG yng Nghymru. Dywedodd fod angen i bethau newid. Dywedodd wedyn

‘Wales does not get as much out of its spending as it should’.

Nid yw Cymru'n cael cymaint ag y dylai allan o'i gwariant.

He said then that

Dywedodd wedyn

‘there is unacceptable variation in performance between NHS trusts’.

ceir amrywiadau annerbyniol mewn perfformiad rhwng ymddiriedolaethau GIG.

He said then that

Dywedodd wedyn

‘the overall conclusion is that the current position’

mai’r casgliad cyffredinol yw nad yw’r sefyllfa bresennol

in the Welsh NHS

yn GIG Cymru

‘is not sustainable’.

yn gynaliadwy.

That was almost a decade ago. He also concluded that every person and every organisation had a leadership role to play. Is it not time that you, as First Minister, and your Government, showed some leadership in protecting the services that the most vulnerable in our society depend on most?

Yr oedd hynny bron ddegawd yn ôl. Daeth i'r casgliad hefyd fod gan bob person a phob mudiad rôl arweinyddiaeth i’w chwarae. Onid yw’n bryd i chi, fel Prif Weinidog, a’ch Llywodraeth, ddangos rhywfaint o arweinyddiaeth wrth amddiffyn y gwasanaethau y mae’r mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas yn dibynnu arnynt fwyaf?

The First Minister: If it were true that the NHS was unsustainable 10 years ago, it would not be here now. Clearly, that is not correct. We have a fine record on the NHS: waiting lists are dropping, and when it comes to treatment, we do not have any hidden waiting lists, as has been admitted by the UK Government. We have a proud record of being able to provide a holistic service for our people, including free prescriptions, which we will keep. I do not believe that there is any evidence to suggest that the NHS is unsustainable now, just as I do not believe that there was any evidence to suggest that, 10 years ago, it would become unsustainable over the course of a decade.

Y Prif Weinidog: Os oedd yn wir bod y GIG yn anghynaliadwy 10 mlynedd yn ôl, ni fyddai yma yn awr. Yn amlwg, nid yw hynny'n gywir. Mae gennym record ardderchog ar y GIG: mae rhestrau aros yn lleihau, a phan ddaw i driniaeth, nid oes gennym unrhyw restrau aros cudd, fel y cyfaddefwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU. Mae gennym hanes balch o allu darparu gwasanaeth cyfannol i’n pobl, gan gynnwys presgripsiynau am ddim, y byddwn yn eu cadw. Ni chredaf fod unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu bod y GIG yn anghynaliadwy yn awr, yn union fel nad wyf yn credu fod unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu, 10 mlynedd yn ôl, byddai'n mynd yn anghynaliadwy dros gyfnod o ddegawd.

Elin Jones: Brif Weinidog, ers y newyddion fod y Gemau Olympaidd yn dod i Lundain, mae rhai o’r ffynonellau cyllido ar gyfer cynlluniau cyfalaf chwaraeon wedi eu rhewi, i bob pwrpas. Wrth i’r ffynonellau hyn ailagor, yn enwedig y Loteri, a ydych yn credu bod lle i gael cynllun cyfalaf chwaraeon ar gyfer Cymru gyfan, ac y dylai trac rhedeg amlbwrpas, hirddisgwyliedig yn Aberystwyth fod yn un o’r blaenoriaethau?

Elin Jones: First Minister, since it was announced that the Olympic Games are coming to London, some funding sources for capital schemes in sport have been frozen, to all extents and purposes. As these sources, especially the Lottery, open again, do you believe that there is scope for a capital scheme for sports covering the whole of Wales, and that Aberystwyth’s long-awaited, multi-purpose running track should be a priority?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn sicr y byddai hynny yn rhywbeth a fyddai’n cael ei gefnogi gan y gymuned yn Aberystwyth. Gwelsom y datganiad a wnaed ddoe yn Llundain ac yr ydym yn ystyried a ddaw unrhyw les i Gymru o ganlyniad i’r datganiad hwnnw.

The First Minister: I am sure that that would be welcomed by the community in Aberystwyth. We saw the announcement made yesterday in London, and we are considering whether there will be any benefits to Wales as a result.

Julie Morgan: I am pleased that the First Minister agrees that the Olympics will provide good sporting role models for women and girls, in particular. Will he be supporting role models like Hannah Mills, who has been selected for the Great Britain Olympic sailing team and who did her training on Llanishen reservoir, in my constituency of Cardiff North, which is sadly drained at the moment?

Julie Morgan: Yr wyf yn falch bod y Prif Weinidog yn cytuno y bydd y Gemau Olympaidd yn cynnig modelau rôl chwaraeon da i fenywod a merched ifanc, yn arbennig. A fydd yn cefnogi modelau rôl fel Hannah Mills, sydd wedi'i dewis i dîm hwylio Olympaidd Prydain Fawr ac a wnaeth hyfforddi ar gronfa ddŵr Llanisien yn fy etholaeth i, Gogledd Caerdydd, sydd, yn anffodus, wedi’i draenio ar hyn o bryd?

The First Minister: Indeed, and there are many others to whom I wish the best of luck for the Olympics in the middle part of next summer. Of course, I am pleased that so many of our women athletes are in a position where they will, realistically, expect to win a medal in August.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn wir, ac mae yna nifer o bobl arall y dymunaf bob lwc iddynt ar gyfer y Gemau Olympaidd yng nghanol yr haf nesaf. Wrth gwrs, yr wyf yn falch bod cynifer o’n hathletwyr benywaidd mewn sefyllfa lle byddant, yn realistig, yn disgwyl ennill medal ym mis Awst.

Aled Roberts: Brif Weinidog, dylech ychwanegu Cwpan Rygbi Cynghrair y Byd, sy’n dod i Wrecsam flwyddyn nesaf, at eich rhestr. Er hynny, mae problem o ran cynnal gemau pêl droed rhyngwladol ar y Cae Ras gan nad yw’r stadiwm yn cyflawni amodau UEFA. A fydd eich Llywodraeth yn cefnogi ymgyrch gan Brifysgol Glyndŵr a’r clwb pêl-droed i wella’r adnoddau yn y stadiwm?

Aled Roberts: First Minister, you should add the Rugby League World Cup, coming to Wrexham next year, to your list. However, there is a problem withholding international football matches at the Racecourse, as the stadium fails to meet UEFA requirements. Will your Government support the Glyndŵr University and football club campaign to improve facilities at the stadium?

Y Prif Weinidog: Soniais am Gwpan Rygbi Cynghrair y Byd. Fel un sydd wedi anghofio bod y Crusaders wedi symud o Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr i Wrecsam—mae’n dal i fod yn dda gweld y tîm yn chwarae yn adran un y bencampwriaeth—os oes cynlluniau i wella’r Cae Ras a rhoi mwy o seddi yno, byddwn yn fodlon siarad am y peth gyda Phrifysgol Glyndŵr a’r cwmni sydd biau’r Cae Ras.

The First Minister: I mentioned the Rugby League World Cup. As one who has forgotten that the Crusaders moved from Bridgend to Wrexham—it is still good to see the team play in the championship 1—if there are plans to improve the Racecourse, in order to put in more seating, I would be willing to discuss them with the Glyndŵr University and the company that owns the Racecourse.

1.30 p.m.

Antoinette Sandbach: First Minister, your Government’s decision to remove the less favoured area uplift within Glastir has been a matter of concern to the agricultural industry. You stated on 18 October in this Chamber that

Antoinette Sandbach: Brif Weinidog, mae penderfyniad eich Llywodraeth i gael gwared ar y taliad chwyddo ardaloedd llai ffafriol o fewn Glastir wedi bod yn destun pryder i'r diwydiant amaethyddol. Dywedasoch ar 18 Hydref yn y Siambr bod

‘the changes have been forced upon us by the European Commission as it would not accept an LFA element. That is clear and a matter of public record.’

y newidiadau wedi'u gorfodi arnom gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd gan na fyddai’n derbyn elfen ALFf. Mae hynny'n glir ac yn fater o gofnod cyhoeddus.

Therefore, can you explain why the Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes has written to me specifically denying this point? Can you assure me that you will apologise to Welsh farmers for the confusion that your contradictory statements have caused?

Felly, a allwch egluro pam fod y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd wedi ysgrifennu ataf yn gwadu’r pwynt hwn yn benodol? A allwch fy sicrhau y byddwch yn ymddiheuro i ffermwyr Cymru am y dryswch y mae’ch datganiadau anghyson wedi achosi?

The First Minister: No, because the reality is that this is what we were able to get past the European Commission. It is also important for the Conservative party to understand that every farmer in Wales will be in a position to benefit because of the changes. We have a good record of standing up for farmers in Wales, and we will carry on standing up for farmers in Wales despite the UK Government’s view, which is so different to ours, and so different to the interests of Welsh farmers.

Y Prif Weinidog: Na, oherwydd y gwir amdani yw mai dyna oedd yn dderbyniol i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Mae'n bwysig hefyd bod y Blaid Geidwadol yn deall y bydd pob ffermwr yng Nghymru mewn sefyllfa i elwa oherwydd y newidiadau. Mae gennym record dda o sefyll cornel ffermwyr yng Nghymru, a byddwn yn parhau i sefyll cornel ffermwyr yng Nghymru er gwaethaf barn Llywodraeth y DU, sydd mor wahanol i’n barn ni, ac mor wahanol i fuddiannau ffermwyr Cymru.

William Powell: First Minister, the Deputy Minister last week announced the beginning of a reflection exercise on the future of European programmes from 2014 to 2020. What specific measures will be taken to publicise this decision, which we broadly welcome, to ensure that there is maximum participation in this important consultation, particularly from the widely dispersed farming community?

William Powell: Brif Weinidog, cyhoeddodd y Dirprwy Weinidog yr wythnos diwethaf ddechrau ymarfer myfyrio ar ddyfodol rhaglenni Ewropeaidd o 2014 i 2020. Pa fesurau penodol  a gaiff eu cymryd i roi cyhoeddusrwydd i'r penderfyniad hwn, yr ydym yn ei groesawu’n fras, i sicrhau bod cymaint o gyfranogiad yn yr ymgynghoriad pwysig hwn, yn enwedig gan y gymuned ffermio wasgaredig?

The First Minister: We have the records of every farmer who claims, and we also have a good record over the years of communicating with farmers. We have done it through Gwlad magazine, and we have been able to consult with farmers over time because many of them are known to us and are on the database of claimants.   

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gennym gofnodion pob ffermwr sy'n hawlio, ac mae gennym hefyd record dda dros y blynyddoedd o gyfathrebu â ffermwyr. Rydym gwneud hynny drwy gylchgrawn Gwlad, ac yr ydym wedi gallu ymgynghori â ffermwyr dros amser oherwydd bod nifer ohonynt yn hysbys i ni ac ar y gronfa ddata hawlwyr.

David Melding: First Minister, you may know that your party colleague Ed Balls was in Cardiff, and, indeed, south Wales more widely, last week, when he warned that Wales faces being hit disproportionately by the eurozone crisis. I wonder whether that is also your assessment and whether you will bring forward some sort of statement to say how you will modify some of your policies to ensure that we can head off, or at least mitigate, some of the worst implications of this incredible crisis.

David Melding: Brif Weinidog, efallai y gwyddoch fod eich cyd-Aelod plaid, Ed Balls, yng Nghaerdydd, ac, yn wir, yn ne Cymru’n fwy cyffredinol, yr wythnos diwethaf, pan rybuddiodd fod Cymru’n wynebu ergyd anghymesur yn sgil argyfwng parth yr ewro. Tybed ai dyna’ch asesiad chi hefyd, ac a fyddwch yn cyflwyno rhyw fath o ddatganiad i ddweud sut y byddwch yn addasu rhai o'ch polisïau i sicrhau y gallwn atal, neu o leiaf liniaru, rhai o oblygiadau gwaethaf yr argyfwng anhygoel hwn.

The First Minister: I see no evidence to suggest that Wales will be disproportionately hit, but it is right to say that all countries in Europe, particularly those in the European Union, will be hit, whether or not they are in the eurozone. The great question that has to be considered on the part of the UK is this: should we see ourselves as a central part of the EU, although not necessarily of the eurozone, or should we stay on the sidelines? At the moment, my great worry is that the UK is perceived as being a bit player and not a central part of Europe, which is where we should be.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni welaf unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu y bydd Cymru’n cael ergyd anghymesur, ond mae'n iawn i ddweud y bydd pob gwlad yn Ewrop, yn enwedig y rheini yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, yn cael eu bwrw, pa un a ydynt ym mharth yr ewro ai peidio. Y cwestiwn mawr y mae'n rhaid ei ystyried ar ran y DU yw hwn: a ddylem weld ein hunain fel rhan ganolog o'r UE, er nad o reidrwydd fel rhan o barth yr ewro, neu a ddylem aros ar y cyrion? Ar hyn o bryd, fy mhryder mawr yw bod y DU yn cael ei weld fel chwaraewr bach ac nid fel rhan ganolog o Ewrop, a dyna lle dylem fod.

Alun Ffred Jones: I ddod â’r mater yn ôl i Gymru, mae gwariant ar gynlluniau i wella is-adeiledd Cymru yn un o’r ffyrdd amlwg y gallwn eu defnyddio i gynyddu cyflogaeth a chefnogi cwmnïau yn y cyfnod anodd hwn. Mae datganiad y Canghellor wedi rhyddhau swm o tua £215 miliwn ar gyfer cynlluniau cyfalaf, ond, ar ei ben ei hun, ni fydd hynny’n ddigon. A yw eich Llywodraeth yn mynd i geisio uchafu’r swm hwnnw drwy ei ddefnyddio i ddenu arian o’r sector preifat neu a ydych yn mynd i’w ddefnyddio mewn ffordd wahanol?

Alun Ffred Jones: To return to Wales, expenditure on schemes to improve the infrastructure of Wales is one of the obvious ways that we can use to increase employment and support companies at this difficult time. The Chancellor’s statement has released a sum of about £215 million for capital schemes, but, on its own, that will not be enough. Will your Government try to maximise this sum by using it to attract funding from the private sector or are you going to use it in a different way?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym eisiau sicrhau bod—mae hwn yn rhywbeth y mae’r Trysorlys wedi siarad amdano—trafodaeth ynglŷn â phrosiectau mawr. Un o’r pethau mae’r Trysorlys wedi eu dweud yw ei fod eisiau siarad gyda ni ynglŷn â’r M4. Yr ydym eisiau sicrhau, lle mae’n bosibl, fod arian ychwanegol yn dod i mewn, er enghraifft, drwy awdurdodau lleol, er mwyn sicrhau bod yr arian a gawsom wythnos diwethaf yn gallu cynyddu wrth dynnu ar ffynonellau eraill.

The First Minister: We want to ensure that—this is something that the Treasury has discussed—there is discussion about major projects. One of the things that the Treasury has said is that it wants to talk to us about the M4. We want to ensure that, where possible, we secure additional money, for example, through the local authorities, in order to ensure that the money that we received last week can be increased by drawing from other sources.

Eluned Parrott: First Minister, when you announced the establishment of the delivery unit on 13 July, you described part of its role as ensuring

Eluned Parrott: Brif Weinidog, pan gyhoeddasoch sefydlu’r uned gyflawni ar 13 Gorffennaf, fe wnaethoch ddisgrifio rhan o'i rôl fel sicrhau

‘that all parts of the Welsh Government are playing their part to deliver the Welsh Government’s policy objectives against measureable and transparent targets.’

‘bod pob rhan o Lywodraeth Cymru’n chwarae eu rhan i gyflawni amcanion polisi Llywodraeth Cymru yn erbyn targedau mesuradwy a thryloyw.’

However, the economic policy section of the programme for government does not contain a single numerical target. Is the delivery unit now setting its own indicative targets, and have those been changed as a result of the continuing impact of the eurozone crisis?

Fodd bynnag, nid yw adran polisi economaidd y rhaglen lywodraethu’n cynnwys yr un targed rhifyddol. A yw’r uned gyflawni bellach yn pennu targedau dangosol ei hun, ac a yw’r rheiny wedi newid o ganlyniad i effaith parhaus argyfwng parth yr ewro?

The First Minister: No, what we published in our programme for government remains the same. Our aspirations are set out there, and we want the people of Wales to be able to measure us year-on-year against those aspirations.

Y Prif Weinidog: Na, mae’r hyn y gwnaethom gyhoeddi yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu yn parhau yr un peth. Mae ein dyheadau wedi’u nodi yno, ac rydym am i bobl Cymru allu ein mesur o’r naill flwyddyn i’r llall yn erbyn y dyheadau hynny.

1.45 p.m.

Joyce Watson: First Minister, for many people in Wales the first priority in 2012 will be sorting through energy bills and working out how they will be able to pay them. I have a copy here of the report by the Office of Fair Trading on the off-grid energy market, which details unfair practices in the heating fuel industry. Has your Government had discussions with the Office of Fair Trading and the UK Government about stamping out overcharging and other dodgy practices in the industry that we have witnessed in west Wales, for example? What, if anything, can your Government do to support households in my region that rely on expensive fuels that are prone to steep price rises at very short notice during cold snaps?

Joyce Watson: Brif Weinidog, i lawer o bobl yng Nghymru y flaenoriaeth gyntaf yn 2012 fydd edrych drwy filiau ynni a gweithio allan sut y byddant yn gallu eu talu. Mae gen i gopi yma o'r adroddiad gan y Swyddfa Masnachu Teg ar y farchnad ynni oddi ar y grid, sy'n manylu ar arferion annheg yn y diwydiant tanwydd gwresogi. A yw eich Llywodraeth wedi cael trafodaethau gyda'r Swyddfa Masnachu Teg a Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch dileu codi gormod ac arferion amheus eraill yn y diwydiant a welsom yng ngorllewin Cymru, er enghraifft? Beth, os unrhyw beth, all eich Llywodraeth ei wneud i gefnogi teuluoedd yn fy rhanbarth sy'n dibynnu ar danwydd drud sy'n dueddol o gynyddu i grocbris ar fyr rybudd yn ystod cyfnodau oer?

The First Minister: There needs to be a reform of the energy market to make it far more transparent, because there are so many tariffs that people have to plough through, and it is very difficult for individual consumers to work out what is the best tariff for them. It is then important that those tariffs are simplified to make sure that people are fully able to understand where their interests lie in terms of getting a better deal for their energy supply. That is something that the UK Government will need to take forward. Certainly it is important that we see a proper energy market perform in this country, so that the individual consumer knows where they stand.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae angen diwygio'r farchnad ynni i'w gwneud yn llawer mwy tryloyw, oherwydd bod cymaint o dariffau sydd gan bobl i durio trwyddynt, ac mae'n anodd iawn i ddefnyddwyr unigol weithio allan beth yw'r tariff gorau ar eu cyfer. Yna mae'n bwysig bod y tariffau hynny’n cael eu symleiddio er mwyn sicrhau fod pobl yn gallu llawn ddeall ble mae eu buddiannau o ran cael gwell bargen ar gyfer eu cyflenwad ynni. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth y bydd angen i Lywodraeth y DU fynd i’r afael ag ef. Yn sicr, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gweld marchnad ynni briodol yn gweithredu yn y wlad hon, fel bod y defnyddiwr unigol yn gwybod lle maent yn sefyll.

Peter Black: First Minister, yesterday, you were at the opening of the Institute of Life Science 2 at Swansea University, which is a welcome development for the city and county of Swansea. You will know that some of the research scholars in that institute are currently funded through the Prince of Wales innovation scholarship, which your Government is bringing to an end. Clearly there is a need for something to replace that particular scheme. What sort of timetable are you now looking at in terms of coming up with an alternative so that we can continue to encourage the very valuable research that you were encouraging yesterday?

Peter Black: Brif Weinidog, ddoe, yr oeddech yn agoriad Sefydliad Gwyddor Bywyd 2 ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe, sydd yn ddatblygiad i'w groesawu i ddinas a sir Abertawe. Byddwch yn gwybod bod rhai o'r ysgolheigion ymchwil yn y sefydliad yn cael eu hariannu ar hyn o bryd drwy ysgoloriaeth arloesi Tywysog Cymru, y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei therfynu. Yn amlwg, mae angen rhywbeth i gymryd lle'r cynllun penodol hwnnw. Pa fath o amserlen yr ydych yn awr yn ei ystyried o ran dod o hyd i ddewis amgen fel y gallwn barhau i annog yr ymchwil gwerthfawr iawn yr oeddech yn ei annog ddoe?

The First Minister: We understand the need to ensure that there is proper funding available with the Prince of Wales scheme coming to an end. We are looking to put alternatives in place as soon as possible.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn deall yr angen i sicrhau bod cyllid priodol ar gael gyda chynllun Tywysog Cymru yn dod i ben. Rydym yn chwilio am ddewisiadau amgen i’w rhoi ar waith cyn gynted ag y bo modd.

Kenneth Skates: First Minister, an important issue that has come up in the media task and finish group has been the need to support the training of Welsh-language journalists in Wales. The wider media industry is generally going through a pretty tough time right now and it is vital that Welsh-language print and broadcast journalists get the training and work placements that they need to become fine journalists. Will the Welsh Government look into how this can be achieved, and also support Glyndŵr University, which is working with The Wrexham Leader newspaper and the National Council for the Training of Journalists in setting up the first industry-accredited journalism course for Welsh speakers in the UK?

Kenneth Skates: Brif Weinidog, mater pwysig sydd wedi codi yn y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar y cyfryngau yw’r angen i gefnogi hyfforddiant newyddiadurwyr Cymraeg eu hiaith yng Nghymru. Ar y cyfan, mae'r diwydiant cyfryngau ehangach yn mynd trwy gyfnod eithaf anodd ar hyn o bryd ac mae'n hanfodol bod newyddiadurwyr print a darlledu Cymraeg eu hiaith yn cael yr hyfforddiant a’r lleoliadau gwaith angenrheidiol i ddod yn newyddiadurwyr da. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru edrych ar sut y gellir cyflawni hyn, ac hefyd gefnogi Prifysgol Glyndŵr, sy'n gweithio gyda phapur newydd The Wrexham Leader a'r Cyngor Cenedlaethol ar gyfer Hyfforddi Newyddiadurwyr i sefydlu'r cwrs newyddiaduraeth cyntaf a achredwyd gan y diwydiant ar gyfer siaradwyr Cymraeg yn y DU?

The First Minister: Absolutely, and I very much welcome the initiative that Glyndŵr has put forward. There will always be a need to ensure that people are able to access news as easily as possible, and there will always be a need to ensure that people are able to access Welsh news as easily as possible. Certainly, many of us in this Chamber, if not all of us, will have concerns as to the future of news in Wales, given the very tough market conditions that exist.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwnaf, ac yr wyf yn rhoi croeso brwd i’r fenter mae Glyndŵr wedi’i chyflwyno. Bydd bob amser angen sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael mynediad at newyddion mor hawdd ag y bo modd, a bydd bob amser angen sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael mynediad at newyddion Cymreig mor hawdd ag y bo modd. Yn sicr, mae gan lawer ohonom yn y Siambr hon, os nad pob un ohonom, bryderon am ddyfodol newyddion yng Nghymru, o ystyried yr amodau marchnad anodd iawn sy'n bodoli.

Keith Davies: Fel cefnogwr chwaraeon, yr wyf yn falch o berfformiad ac enw da Cymru, a wnaeth yn arbennig o dda yn Seland Newydd, er enghraifft. Bydd cystadleuaeth gyntaf y Gemau Olympaidd, sef pêl-droed i fenywod, yn cael ei chynnal yng Nghaerdydd, ac, yn ychwanegol at hyn, mae Cymru hefyd wedi’i dewis fel lleoliad  i wersylloedd hyfforddi. Yn lleol, mae clwb gymnasteg Llanelli yn buddsoddi yn ei gyfleusterau, ac mae bellach yn hyrwyddo cyfranogaeth i nifer o blant ifanc mewn chwaraeon. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau y bydd etifeddiaeth y Gemau Olympaidd yn cefnogi ac annog chwaraeon yng nghymunedau Cymru a, gobeithio, yn datblygu enillwyr medalau’r dyfodol?

Keith Davies: As a sports fan, I am proud of the performance and the reputation of Wales, which did extremely well in New Zealand, for example. The first Olympic competition, which is women’s football, will be staged in Cardiff, and, in addition to that, Wales has also been selected as a training camp location. Locally, the Llanelli gymnastics club is investing in its facilities, and it now promotes participation to a number of young children in sport. What is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that the legacy of the Olympic Games will support and encourage sport in Welsh communities and, hopefully, the development of future medal-winners?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae Chwaraeon Cymru yn paratoi strategaeth gymunedol ar hyn o bryd sy’n anelu at sicrhau mwy o gyfleoedd chwaraeon i bobl sy’n byw yn ein cymunedau, a hefyd i sicrhau clybiau chwaraeon cryfach.

The First Minister: Sport Wales is currently preparing a community strategy, which aims to ensure more sporting opportunities for people living in our communities, and also to secure stronger sporting clubs.

Suzy Davies: Er ei bod yn braf clywed y bydd hyfforddiant yn cael ei gynnal yno, mae’n drueni na fydd Abertawe yn cynnal cystadlaethau nofio yn ystod y Gemau Olympaidd. Fodd bynnag, mae manteision posibl i Gymru, gan y bydd pyllau nofio’r pentref Olympaidd yn cael eu datgymalu ar ôl y gemau ac yn cael eu hailadeiladu mewn lleoliadau eraill. A fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud cais i ail-leoli un o’r pyllau hynny yng Nghymru?

Suzy Davies: Although it is good to hear that coaching will be happening there, it is disappointing to hear that Swansea will not be staging swimming competitions during the Olympic Games. However, there are possible benefits to Wales, given that the swimming pools in the Olympic village will be dismantled after the games and will be rebuilt elsewhere. Will the Welsh Government make a bid to relocate one of those pools in Wales?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hynny’n bwynt diddorol. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y gwnawn ei ystyried, os bydd cyfle i gael pwll arall yng Nghymru. Rhaid hefyd, wrth gwrs, ystyried y cyfraniad a fydd yn rhaid inni ei wneud bob blwyddyn. Yr wyf yn credu bod hynny’n rhywbeth y gallwn edrych arno.

The First Minister: That is an interesting point. That is something that we will consider, if there is an opportunity to secure another pool for Wales. We must also, of course, consider the contribution that we would have to make every year. I think that that is something that we could look at.

Diwydiant Amaeth yn y Gorllewin

Agriculture Industry in West Wales

15. Paul Davies: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am y diwydiant amaeth yn y gorllewin. OAQ(4)0265(FM)

15. Paul Davies: Will the First Minister make a statement on the agricultural industry in West Wales. OAQ(4)0265(FM)

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn cyfeirio’r Aelod at yr ateb a roddais i gwestiwn 5.

The First Minister: I refer the Member to my response to question 5.

Paul Davies: Un o brif flaenoriaethau ffermwyr yn fy etholaeth yw taclo TB mewn gwartheg, oherwydd mae’r clefyd hwn yn cael effaith ofnadwy ar y sector amaethyddiaeth. Yr wyf yn deall bod y panel annibynnol sydd yn adolygu’r polisi i ddelio â TB mewn gwartheg wedi cyfarfod am y tro diwethaf ar 11 Tachwedd. A all y Prif Weinidog ddweud wrthym pryd bydd ei Lywodraeth yn gwneud datganiad a phenderfyniad ar y ffordd ymlaen? Mae bron chwe mis wedi mynd heibio ers i Weinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy ohirio’r polisi gwreiddiol.

Paul Davies: One of the main priorities for farmers in my constituency is to tackle bovine TB because that disease is having a huge impact on the agriculture sector. I understand that the independent panel reviewing the policy to deal with bovine TB met for the final time on 11 November. Can the First Minister tell us when his Government will make a statement and a decision on the way forward? It is almost six months now since the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development delayed the original policy.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd datganiad cyflawn yn cael ei wneud yn ystod misoedd cyntaf y flwyddyn nesaf.

The First Minister: A full statement will be made during the early months of next year.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yng nghyd-destun y penderfyniad i gynnal arolwg arall o’r sefyllfa o ran TB, rhoddodd eich Llywodraeth a’r Gweinidog ar y pryd ymrwymiad na fyddai gohirio diangen ar y penderfyniad. A ydych yn cytuno, o ystyried ein bod bellach wedi cyrraedd diwedd y flwyddyn, a’ch bod wedi cael saith mis i edrych ar y mater hwn, bod y gohiriad wedi bod yn un go ddifrifol i’r diwydiant amaethyddol a’ch bod chi, fel Llywodraeth, wedi methu dod i benderfyniad ar y mater hwn? Y gwir yw nad oes tystiolaeth wyddonol newydd. Y cyfan yr ydych yn ceisio ei wneud yw gohirio’r penderfyniad oherwydd nad oes gennych y dewrder a oedd gan y cyn-Weinidog i wneud penderfyniad ar y clefyd hwn. 

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: In the context of the decision to hold another review of the position on TB, your Government and the Minister at the time made a commitment that there would not be any unnecessary deferral of that decision. Do you agree, considering that we have arrived at the end of the year, and that you have had seven months to look at this matter, that the delay has been quite serious for the agriculture industry and that you, as a Government, have failed to reach a decision on this matter? The truth of the matter is that there is no new scientific evidence. All you are trying to do is defer the decision because you do not have the courage that the former Minister had to make a decision on this disease.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n rhyfedd fod rhywun sydd heb weld yr adroddiad yn dweud nad oes unrhyw dystiolaeth wyddonol newydd. Mae’r Gweinidog yn mynd i wneud datganiad ysgrifenedig ar y mater hwn yn ystod yr wythnos hon. Bydd datganiad cyflawn a phenderfyniad yn cael eu gwneud yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd.

The First Minister: It is very strange for someone who has not seen the report to say that there is no new scientific evidence. The Minister will make a written statement on this matter during this week. There will be a full statement and a decision made early in the new year.

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): There are no changes to report to this week’s planned business. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Nid oes newidiadau i'w hadrodd i fusnes arfaethedig yr wythnos hon. Mae'r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y dangosir ar y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir ei weld ymhlith papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i'r Aelodau'n electronig.

William Graham: Thank you for today’s statement, Leader of the House. Will you bring forward a statement in the Assembly’s next session regarding what I hope is progress with regard to the M4? The Minister will be well aware of continuing delays this morning. In his reply to questions on last week’s autumn statement, the Chancellor gave a clear indication that he would be open to negotiations on possible funding for infrastructure of this kind. The Minister will know that at least 17 similar schemes have been outlined in England. Commentators say that for every £1 spent on infrastructure at least £3 can be attracted to the economy. As this is the advent season, might the Minister give us some good news?

William Graham: Diolch am ddatganiad heddiw, Arweinydd y Tŷ. A wnewch chi gyflwyno datganiad yn sesiwn nesaf y Cynulliad am yr hyn y gobeithiaf a fydd yn gynnydd o ran yr M4? Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod yn iawn am yr oedi parhaus y bore yma. Yn ei ymateb i gwestiynau ar ddatganiad yr hydref yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd y Canghellor yn glir y byddai'n barod i drafod cyllid posibl ar gyfer seilwaith o'r math hwn. Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod bod o leiaf 17 o gynlluniau tebyg wedi eu hamlinellu yn Lloegr. Dywed sylwebyddion y gellir denu o leiaf £3 i'r economi am bob £1 a wariwyd ar seilwaith. Gan mai hwn yw tymor y dyfodiad, a wnaiff y Gweinidog roi rhywfaint o newyddion da inni?

Jane Hutt: I thank William Graham for his question. The UK Government says that it will engage with the Welsh Government on improvements to the M4 in south-east Wales, but what does that mean? As you say, the M4 is a key link into and within the industrial metropolitan area of south Wales, which is home to two thirds of the Welsh population. It is subject to congestion and delay, which has been a long-running source of concern to the business sector in Wales. I confirm that the Welsh Government is exploring options to improve the M4 to promote growth and to ensure that there are substantial and sustainable economic benefits. I welcome the UK Government’s commitment to engaging with us and look forward to further discussions at the earliest opportunity.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i William Graham am ei gwestiwn. Dywed Llywodraeth y DU y bydd yn ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru ar welliannau i'r M4 yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, ond beth mae hynny'n ei olygu? Fel y dywedwch, mae'r M4 yn gyswllt allweddol i mewn ac o fewn ardal fetropolitan ddiwydiannol de Cymru, sy'n gartref i ddwy ran o dair o boblogaeth Cymru. Mae'n destun tagfeydd ac oedi, sydd wedi bod yn ffynhonnell pryder hirfaith i'r sector busnes yng Nghymru. Cadarnhaf bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried opsiynau i wella'r M4 i hyrwyddo twf ac i sicrhau bod buddiannau economaidd sylweddol a chynaliadwy. Yr wyf yn croesawu ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y DU i ymgysylltu â ni ac edrychwn ymlaen at drafodaethau pellach ar y cyfle cyntaf.

Mick Antoniw: The coalition Government is proposing changes to employment law that will apply to Welsh workers as well as those in the rest of the UK. The changes involve protected conversations, where an employer may be able to call in a worker and, in confidence, say whatever they want to that person without any legal right for them to refer to what is said during the conversation. My concern is that this invites bullying: they are known as ‘bullying meetings’. Does the Minister have the same concerns?

Mick Antoniw: Mae’r Llywodraeth glymblaid yn cynnig newidiadau i’r gyfraith cyflogaeth a fydd yn gymwys i weithwyr Cymru yn ogystal â'r rhai yng ngweddill y DU. Mae'r newidiadau yn cynnwys sgyrsiau gwarchodedig, lle gall cyflogwr alw mewn gweithiwr ac, yn gyfrinachol, ddweud beth bynnag maent eisiau ei ddweud wrth y person hwnnw heb unrhyw hawl cyfreithiol iddynt gyfeirio at yr hyn a ddywedir yn ystod y sgwrs. Fy mhryder yw bod hyn yn gwahodd bwlio: maent yn cael eu hadnabod fel ‘cyfarfodydd bwlio’. A oes gan y Gweinidog yr un pryderon?

2.00 p.m.

Mick Antoniw: Will representations be made on behalf of the Welsh workforce that there are serious concerns about going down this particular road, particularly in light of this Government’s anti-bullying policies?

Mick Antoniw: A gaiff sylwadau eu gwneud ar ran gweithlu Cymru bod pryderon difrifol am fynd lawr y trywydd penodol hwn, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni polisïau gwrth-fwlio’r Llywodraeth hon?

Jane Hutt: This follows up on a question that you raised with me last week. The Member for Pontypridd raises a serious issue, particularly as possible changes to employment law were mentioned again in the Chancellor’s statement last week. This area of so-called ‘protected conversations’ instils great fear in a workforce that is already under threat in many ways. So, it is something that I am sure the Welsh Government will be looking into.

Jane Hutt: Mae hyn yn dilyn cwestiwn i mi a godwyd gennych chi’r wythnos diwethaf. Mae’r Aelod dros Bontypridd yn codi mater pwysig, yn enwedig gan y soniwyd am newidiadau posibl i’r gyfraith cyflogaeth eto yn natganiad y Canghellor yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae'r ‘sgyrsiau gwarchodedig’ bondigrybwyll hyn yn codi ofn mawr yn y gweithlu sydd eisoes dan fygythiad mewn llawer o ffyrdd. Felly, mae'n rhywbeth yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n edrych arno.

Simon Thomas: Could we have a statement from the Minister for environment on planning issues, particularly on the continuing application of minerals technical advice note 2 on open-cast coal development and the application of the 500m buffer zone? You will remember, Minister, that this place fought very hard to ensure a 500m buffer, so it is a bit strange therefore to see that Powys County Council is even considering an application for an extension of the Nant Helen open-cast mine that will take the mine to within 400m of a brand-new twenty-first century school in Penrhos, Ystradgynlais. It would be good to have a statement from the Minister on these matters so that we can see whether or not such an application should be properly called in and decided upon at a national level for the protection of local people and the schoolchildren who will be using that brand-new school.

Simon Thomas: A allem gael datganiad gan Weinidog yr amgylchedd ar faterion cynllunio, yn enwedig ar weithredu parhaus nodyn cyngor technegol mwynau 2 ar ddatblygiad glo brig a gweithredu’r glustogfa 500m? Byddwch yn cofio, Gweinidog, i’r lle hwn ymladd yn galed iawn i sicrhau clustogfa 500m, felly mae’n braidd yn rhyfedd gweld bod Cyngor Sir Powys hyd yn oed yn ystyried cais am estyniad i lofa glo brig Nant Helen a fydd yn mynd â’r lofa o fewn 400m i ysgol newydd sbon unfed ganrif ar hugain ym Mhenrhos, Ystradgynlais. Byddai'n dda cael datganiad gan y Gweinidog ar y materion hyn fel y gallwn weld a ddylai cais o'r fath gael ei alw i mewn ai peidio, a’i benderfynu arno yn genedlaethol er mwyn diogelu pobl leol a’r plant ysgol a fydd yn defnyddio'r ysgol newydd sbon honno.

Jane Hutt: I can assure Simon Thomas, on behalf of the Minister, that Powys County Council has to take its responsibilities very seriously in terms of that buffer agreement, which we worked hard to deliver. Clearly, in terms of any proposals for twenty-first century schools development, this would be at the sharp end of any discussion surrounding planning implications.

Jane Hutt: Gallaf sicrhau Simon Thomas, ar ran y Gweinidog, bod Cyngor Sir Powys yn gorfod cymryd ei gyfrifoldebau o ddifri o ran y cytundeb clustogi hwnnw, y gwnaethom weithio'n galed i’w gyflwyno. Yn amlwg, o ran unrhyw gynigion ar gyfer datblygu ysgolion unfed ganrif ar hugain, byddai hyn yn cael blaenoriaeth mewn unrhyw drafodaeth ynghylch goblygiadau cynllunio.

Rebecca Evans: Minister, January will mark 10 years since the Welsh Government signed up to the social model of disability, recognising that people are more disabled by inaccessible services and by other people’s attitudes than by their own impediments. There have been many important steps forward but there is still a long way to go. Will you allow time for a statement in the new year on how the social model is informing policy and practice across Government departments?

Rebecca Evans: Weinidog, bydd Ionawr yn nodi 10 mlynedd ers i Lywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i'r model anabledd cymdeithasol, gan gydnabod mai gwasanaethau anhygyrch ac agweddau pobl eraill sy’n anablu pobl yn fwy na’u namau eu hunain. Bu nifer o gamau pwysig ymlaen, ond mae ffordd bell i fynd o hyd. A wnewch chi ganiatáu amser am ddatganiad yn y flwyddyn newydd ar sut y mae’r model cymdeithasol yn llywio polisi ac arfer ar draws adrannau'r Llywodraeth?

Jane Hutt: I thank Rebecca Evans for that question. As Minister for equalities, I would be very happy to consider making a statement. I remember, as will many Members here, that not only the Welsh Government, but the whole of the National Assembly for Wales, agreed in 2002 to adopt the social model of disability. Indeed, it has impacted and affected not only Welsh Government policies, but those of the National Assembly in terms of work done by the former Committee on Equality of Opportunity, chaired by Ann Jones, particularly on the needs of disabled young people. I am sure that Members across the Chamber would welcome a statement and update on the framework for action on independent living for disabled people, which I am taking forward with support from the Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services. The Petitions Committee has also discussed this issue, and Disability Wales is very pleased that we are taking this forward.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i Rebecca Evans am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Fel y Gweinidog cydraddoldeb, byddwn yn fwy na bodlon ystyried gwneud datganiad. Rwy’n cofio, fel y bydd sawl Aelod yma, nad dim ond Llywodraeth Cymru, ond Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i gyd, a gytunodd yn 2002 i fabwysiadu'r model anabledd cymdeithasol. Yn wir, mae wedi cael effaith nid yn unig ar bolisïau Llywodraeth Cymru, ond ar rai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o ran y gwaith a wnaed gan yr hen Bwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal, a gadeiriwyd gan Ann Jones, yn enwedig ar anghenion pobl ifanc anabl. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai Aelodau ar draws y Siambr yn croesawu datganiad a diweddariad ar y fframwaith gweithredu i bobl anabl fyw yn annibynnol, yr wyf yn ei ddatblygu gyda chymorth y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau hefyd wedi trafod y mater hwn, ac mae Anabledd Cymru yn falch iawn ein bod mynd â hyn yn ei flaen.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Leader of the House, could we have a statement from the First Minister on how he proposes to take forward the initiative he announced in the press recently to establish an air link with China? The difference between our First Minister’s visit to China and the Scottish First Minister’s current visit to China could not be starker, in that the Scottish First Minister has secured a commitment from the Chinese state airline to visit Scotland in the new year and develop plans to establish a link. Has our First Minister just made a press announcement, or is there some substance behind his proposal?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Arweinydd y Tŷ, a gawn ni ddatganiad gan y Prif Weinidog ar sut mae'n bwriadu datblygu'r fenter a gyhoeddodd yn y wasg yn ddiweddar i sefydlu cyswllt awyr â Tsieina? Ni allai’r gwahaniaeth fod yn amlycach rhwng ymweliad ein Prif Weinidog â Tsieina ac ymweliad presennol Prif Weinidog yr Alban â Tsieina, gan fod Prif Weinidog yr Alban wedi sicrhau ymrwymiad gan gwmni awyrennau y wladwriaeth Tsieineaidd i ymweld â’r Alban yn y flwyddyn newydd ac i ddatblygu cynlluniau i sefydlu cyswllt. A yw’n Prif Weinidog ond wedi gwneud cyhoeddiad i'r wasg, neu a oes rhywfaint o sylwedd y tu ôl i’w gynnig?

Jane Hutt: I would have hoped that the leader of the opposition would have made a statement on his party’s support for the First Minister’s wish, plans and discussions around having that all-important link as a result of his visit to China. It is a serious issue in the context of the strong links that are being developed with the Chinese Government in terms of schools, higher education, industry and business.

Jane Hutt: Byddwn wedi gobeithio y byddai arweinydd yr wrthblaid wedi gwneud datganiad ar gefnogaeth ei blaid am ddymuniad, cynlluniau a thrafodaethau y Prif Weinidog i gael y cyswllt hollbwysig hwnnw o ganlyniad i’w ymweliad â Tsieina. Mae'n fater difrifol yng nghyd-destun y cysylltiadau cryf sy’n cael eu datblygu gyda Llywodraeth Tsieina o ran ysgolion, addysg uwch, diwydiant a busnes.

Kirsty Williams: Leader of the House, it is clear from answers to written questions from the Minister for Local Government and Communities that an announcement on the reprioritisation of trunk road improvements is due in December. Therefore, I am disappointed that it is clear, from the business statement, that it is not the intention of the Minister to make that statement in the Chamber. I am sure that you will agree with me that many communities will be waiting with interest to see any changes that the Minister for Local Government and Communities will make to the trunk road programme. There is particular concern in my constituency about the improvements at Abernant on the A470, between Builth Wells and Erwood, where there is a great deal of concern and local gossip that the scheme has already been cancelled. I am sure that a statement on the floor of the Chamber would be most welcome, not only by the people living in Abernant, but by Assembly Members from all parties.

Kirsty Williams: Arweinydd y Tŷ, mae'n amlwg o atebion gan y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i gwestiynau ysgrifenedig y disgwylir cyhoeddiad ar ail-flaenoriaethu gwelliannau cefnffordd ym mis Rhagfyr. Felly, yr wyf yn siomedig ei bod yn amlwg, o'r datganiad busnes, nad yw'n fwriad gan y Gweinidog wneud y datganiad yn y Siambr. Yr wyf yn siŵr y cytunwch â mi y bydd nifer o gymunedau’n aros gyda diddordeb i weld unrhyw newidiadau a wnaiff y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau i’r rhaglen cefnffyrdd. Mae pryder arbennig yn fy etholaeth am y gwelliannau yn Abernant ar yr A470, rhwng Llanfair-ym-Muallt ac Erwyd, lle mae llawer iawn o bryder a hel straeon yn lleol bod y cynllun eisoes wedi ei ganslo. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai croeso mawr, nid yn unig gan y bobl sy'n byw yn Abernant, ond gan Aelodau'r Cynulliad o bob plaid i ddatganiad ar lawr y Siambr.

Jane Hutt: I can assure the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats that there will be a statement from the Minister for Local Government and Communities on the national transport plan, which will put all speculation to rest.

Jane Hutt: Gallaf sicrhau arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru y bydd datganiad gan y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, a fydd yn rhoi taw ar yr holl ddyfalu.

Cynnig NDM4868 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4868 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.5:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

Yn cymeradwyo bod y fersiwn drafft o’r Rheoliadau Strategaethau ar gyfer Gofalwyr (Cymru) 2011 yn cael ei lunio yn unol â’r fersiwn drafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 15 Tachwedd 2011.

Approves that the draft the Carers Strategies (Wales) Regulations 2011 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 15 November 2011.

The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): I move the motion.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Mae’n bleser cael cyflwyno’r rheoliadau ar strategaethau ar gyfer gofalwyr Cymru heddiw. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn gweithredu Mesur Strategaethau ar gyfer Gofalwyr (Cymru) 2010. Cymeradwywyd y Mesur hwnnw gan y Cynulliad a chafodd Gymeradwyaeth Frenhinol tua diwedd 2010. Cawsom gefnogaeth ar draws y pleidiau wrth inni baratoi’r Mesur. Mae hynny’n sicr yn beth da o safbwynt gofalwyr. Mae’n bwysig bod gofalwyr yn gwybod ein bod wedi ymrwymo i’w cefnogi.

It gives me great pleasure to bring forward these regulations on strategies for the carers of Wales today. These regulations implement the Carers Strategies (Wales) Measure 2010. The Measure was approved by the Assembly and received Royal Approval towards the end of 2010. We received cross-party support as we prepared the Measure, and that is certainly a positive from the point of view of carers. It is important that carers know that we are committed to supporting them.

These regulations will ensure that carers information and consultation needs are met, which is an issue that has repeatedly been raised with me by carers as an area of vital importance to them. You will know that the Measure places a duty on designated authorities to prepare, publish and implement a strategy for the benefit of unpaid carers. These strategies will need to set out how information and guidance will be provided to carers that will assist them in carrying out their caring role effectively. They will also set out how carers will be consulted and involved in decisions affecting them and those they care for.

Bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn sicrhau bod anghenion gwybodaeth ac ymgynghori gofalwyr yn cael eu bodloni, sydd yn fater a godwyd gyda mi dro ar ôl tro gan ofalwyr fel rhywbeth sy’n hanfodol bwysig iddynt. Byddwch yn gwybod bod y Mesur yn gosod dyletswydd ar awdurdodau dynodedig i baratoi, cyhoeddi a gweithredu strategaeth er budd gofalwyr di-dâl. Bydd angen i’r strategaethau hyn nodi sut y caiff canllawiau a gwybodaeth eu darparu i ofalwyr i'w helpu i gyflawni eu rôl gofalu'n effeithiol. Byddent hefyd yn nodi sut yr ymgynghorir â gofalwyr a sut y byddent yn ymwneud â phenderfyniadau sy'n effeithio arnynt a’r rheiny maent yn gofalu amdanynt.

Carers have told me that the Measure needs first to be rolled out to the health service, as they were struggling to engage with it. Therefore, the first designated authorities are the local health boards, Velindre NHS Trust, the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust and local authority social services. The health boards are expected to work with key partner authorities in designing and delivering these strategies, including social services and voluntary organisations representing carers.

Dywedodd gofalwyr wrthyf fod angen cyflwyno’r Mesur yn gyntaf i'r gwasanaeth iechyd, gan eu bod cael trafferth ymgysylltu ag ef. Felly, yr awdurdodau dynodedig cyntaf yw’r byrddau iechyd lleol, Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre, Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol awdurdodau lleol. Mae disgwyl i’r byrddau iechyd weithio gydag awdurdodau partner allweddol wrth ddylunio a chyflwyno’r strategaethau hyn, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a sefydliadau gwirfoddol sy'n cynrychioli gofalwyr.

The health boards have been made the lead authorities so that they are responsible for co-ordinating the development of local strategies. I believe that this ownership will help to ensure that strategies make a real impact in terms of engaging carers with the health service. Given the health boards’ status as lead authorities, I have also decided to allocate the funding to support the Measure’s implementations to them, but with a clear requirement that they work together with their partner authorities and that funding is shared accordingly. As I have set out here, and in ‘Sustainable Social Services for Wales: A Framework for Action’, my commitment to joint working is clear. Carers undoubtedly benefit when the organisations that provide services to them work together. 

Mae byrddau iechyd wedi cael eu gwneud yn awdurdodau arweiniol fel eu bod yn gyfrifol am gydgysylltu'r gwaith o ddatblygu strategaethau lleol. Credaf y bydd y berchnogaeth hon yn helpu i sicrhau bod strategaethau’n cael effaith wirioneddol o ran ymgysylltu gofalwyr gyda'r gwasanaeth iechyd. O ystyried statws y byrddau iechyd fel awdurdodau arweiniol, rwyf hefyd wedi penderfynu dyrannu’r cyllid iddynt hwy i gefnogi’r broses o weithredu’r Mesur, ond gyda gofyniad clir eu bod yn cydweithio â'u hawdurdodau partner a bod cyllid yn cael ei rannu yn unol â hynny. Fel rwyf wedi nodi yma, ac yn ‘Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cynaliadwy i Gymru: Fframwaith Gweithredu’, mae fy ymrwymiad i gydweithio yn glir. Yn ddi-os, mae gofalwyr yn elwa pan fo’r sefydliadau sy'n darparu gwasanaethau iddynt yn cydweithio.

Since 15 November, you have had the opportunity to read the regulations in draft, together with the accompanying explanatory memorandum and regulatory impact assessment. I hope that you agree that these regulations will bring benefit to carers. On 28 November, the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee considered these regulations. It has since written to me regarding the production of strategies in English and Welsh as it wishes to ensure parity across the two languages. I accept the spirit behind the committee’s recommendation, and I will be bringing forward amending regulations to address the issue in due course.

Ers 15 Tachwedd, rydych wedi cael y cyfle i ddarllen y rheoliadau drafft, ynghyd â’r memorandwm esboniadol ac asesiad effaith rheoleiddiol. Gobeithio eich bod yn cytuno y bydd y rheoliadau hyn o fudd i ofalwyr. Ar 28 Tachwedd, ystyriodd y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol y rheoliadau hyn. Ers hynny, mae wedi ysgrifennu ataf ynghylch cynhyrchu’r strategaethau yn Gymraeg a Saesneg gan ei fod yn dymuno sicrhau cydraddoldeb yn y ddwy iaith. Derbyniaf yr ysbryd y tu ôl i argymhelliad y pwyllgor, a byddaf yn cyflwyno rheoliadau diwygiol i ymdrin â’r mater maes o law.

The regulations are deliberately prescriptive. I want the designated authorities to be absolutely clear about what is required of them. Indeed, many of the organisations have asked for clarity on what is required of them. The guidance is also clear in its assistance to organisations. Carers need to know what they can expect, and I believe that the regulations and guidance do much to achieve that.

Mae'r rheoliadau’n rhagnodol yn fwriadol. Yr wyf am i'r awdurdodau dynodedig fod yn gwbl glir ynghylch beth sy'n ofynnol ohonynt. Yn wir, mae llawer o'r sefydliadau wedi gofyn am eglurder ar beth sy'n ofynnol ohonynt. Mae'r canllawiau hefyd yn glir yn eu cymorth i sefydliadau. Mae angen i ofalwyr wybod beth y gallant ei ddisgwyl, a chredaf fod y rheoliadau a'r canllawiau yn gwneud llawer i gyflawni hynny.

David Melding: I would like to put on record the thanks of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee to the Deputy Minister for responding to our request that the regulations be strengthened so that there was no real possibility of these strategies, which will take some time to formulate and to be consulted upon, not being bilingual. As we are dealing with major public agencies here, either separately or jointly, we felt that they would always have the capacity to produce material bilingually. Therefore, the usual phrase ‘whenever practical’ in reference to the requirement for things to be bilingual would not be appropriate in this case. I am quite happy with the way that the Deputy Minister has indicated she will now resolve this problem. Therefore, we see no difficulty with these regulations now being approved if that is the will of the Assembly.

David Melding: Hoffwn ddiolch ar ran y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am ymateb i'n cais i gryfhau'r rheoliadau fel nad oedd unrhyw bosibilrwydd gwirioneddol na fydd y strategaethau hyn, a fydd yn cymryd peth amser i’w llunio ac i ymgynghori arnynt, yn ddwyieithog. Gan ein bod yn ymdrin ag asiantaethau cyhoeddus mawr fan hyn, naill ai ar wahân neu ar y cyd, rydym yn teimlo y byddai wastad y capasiti ganddynt i gynhyrchu deunydd yn ddwyieithog. Felly, ni fyddai’r ymadrodd arferol ‘lle bo hynny'n ymarferol’ wrth gyfeirio at y gofyniad i bethau fod yn ddwyieithog yn briodol yn yr achos hwn. Yr wyf yn eithaf bodlon gyda'r ffordd mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi dweud y bydd hi nawr yn datrys y broblem hon. Felly, ni welwn unrhyw anhawster gyda'r rheoliadau hyn bellach yn cael eu cymeradwyo os yw’r Cynulliad yn dymuno hynny.

William Graham: I rise to support the motion. I am grateful to the Deputy Minister for bringing it to us today. I note that the regulations are derived from the Measure that received Royal Approval on 10 November 2010. I am grateful to the Deputy Minister for the extensive consultation that she has undertaken in the past few months. It is a sobering thought to note with regard to the purpose and intended effect of the legislation that, since May last year, the number of unpaid carers in Wales has increased by 8 per cent to more than 370,000. The comprehensive guidance document has been well publicised, and I note that the regulations will mean that the policy intention of the National Assembly for Wales in passing the Measure is given full effect. The information and consultation needs of young carers were also agreed, and I note that the cost for the next financial year is to be some £80,000. I also welcome the post-implementation review, which the Deputy Minister said could be after an 18-month period.

William Graham: Codaf i gefnogi'r cynnig. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am ei gyflwyno i ni heddiw. Nodaf fod y rheoliadau yn deillio o’r Mesur a gafodd Gymeradwyaeth Frenhinol ar 10 Tachwedd 2010. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am yr ymgynghori helaeth a wnaeth yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf. Mae'n sobr nodi, o ran diben ac effaith y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig, ers mis Mai y llynedd, mae nifer y gofalwyr di-dâl yng Nghymru wedi cynyddu 8 y cant i fwy na 370,000. Mae’r ddogfen canllawiau cynhwysfawr wedi cael ei hysbysebu'n dda, a nodaf y bydd y rheoliadau’n golygu y rhoddir effaith lawn i fwriad polisi Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru wrth basio'r Mesur. Cytunwyd hefyd ar anghenion gwybodaeth ac ymgynghori gofalwyr ifanc, a sylwaf fod y gost ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf i fod oddeutu £80,000. Croesawaf hefyd yr adolygiad ôl-weithredu, y dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog a fyddai ar ôl cyfnod o 18 mis.

The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): Thank you for those contributions to this debate. I endorse what you say about young carers. We are happy that this Measure clearly takes into account the needs of young carers. Indeed, there is a separate chapter that spells out what young carers can expect and clear funding commitments with regard to young carers. It is pleasing to note that there continues to be so much support in the Chamber for carers and recognition of the important work they do. Over the next several months, the designated authorities will be getting under way work to train staff in all aspects of the Measure, regulations and guidance, and consulting carers and third sector organisations on the development of these strategies. The regulations require that the designated authorities submit their local strategies to me by 31 October next year. Once I have approved them, the work of implementing them and getting the support to carers that they need can really begin.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Diolch i chi am y cyfraniadau hynny i'r ddadl. Ategaf yr hyn a ddywedwch am ofalwyr ifanc. Yr ydym yn fodlon bod y Mesur hwn yn amlwg yn ystyried anghenion gofalwyr ifanc. Yn wir, ceir pennod ar wahân sy'n esbonio'r hyn y gall gofalwyr ifanc ei ddisgwyl ac ymrwymiadau ariannu clir o ran gofalwyr ifanc. Mae'n braf nodi bod cymaint o gefnogaeth yn dal i fod yn y Siambr i ofalwyr a chydnabyddiaeth i’r gwaith pwysig a wnânt. Dros y misoedd nesaf, bydd yr awdurdodau dynodedig yn dechrau hyfforddi staff ym mhob agwedd ar y Mesur, y rheoliadau a'r canllawiau, ac yn ymgynghori â gofalwyr a sefydliadau trydydd sector ar ddatblygu’r strategaethau hyn. Mae'r rheoliadau’n mynnu bod yr awdurdodau dynodedig yn cyflwyno eu strategaethau lleol i mi erbyn 31 Hydref y flwyddyn nesaf. Unwaith imi eu cymeradwyo, gall y gwaith o’u gweithredu a chael y cymorth sydd ei angen i ofalwyr ddechrau mewn gwirionedd.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Are there any objections? I see that there are none. Therefore, the proposal is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar y cynnig. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau? Gwelaf nad oes. Felly, cytunir ar y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

Cynnig NDM4869 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4869 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.5:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

Yn cymeradwyo bod y fersiwn drafft o’r Gorchymyn Caniatâd Cynllunio (Tynnu’n ôl Orchymyn Datblygu neu Orchymyn Datblygu Lleol) (Iawndal) (Cymru) 2012 yn cael ei lunio yn unol â’r fersiwn drafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 15 Tachwedd 2011.

Approves that the draft the Planning Permission (Withdrawal of Development Order or Local Development Order) (Compensation) (Wales) Order 2012 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 15 November 2011.

The Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development (John Griffiths): I move the motion.

Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy (John Griffiths): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

This draft Orders seeks the approval of the National Assembly for Wales for a small technical element of a suite of interlinked Orders and regulations enabling the use of local development Orders and deals particularly with compensation matters. Such local development Orders would remove the requirement for planning permission for locally specified developments. I consider that they could be a useful vehicle for local planning authorities to assist local economic and community developments that reflect local circumstances. In particular, local development Orders offer the potential for growth. By exempting certain developments from the need to obtain specific planning permission, these Orders can offer considerable benefits to business. Businesses are able to proceed with the development permitted without needing to apply for specific planning permission, thereby saving on application costs and time delays.

Mae’r Gorchmynion drafft hyn yn ceisio cymeradwyaeth Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar gyfer elfen dechnegol fach o gyfres gysylltiedig o Orchmynion a rheoliadau sy’n galluogi defnydd o Orchmynion datblygu lleol ac yn ymdrin yn arbennig â materion iawndal. Byddai'r fath Gorchmynion datblygu lleol yn dileu'r gofyniad am ganiatâd cynllunio ar gyfer datblygiadau lleol penodedig. Rwy’n ystyried y gallent fod yn gyfrwng defnyddiol i awdurdodau cynllunio lleol i gynorthwyo datblygiadau economaidd a chymunedol lleol sy’n adlewyrchu amgylchiadau lleol. Yn benodol, mae Gorchmynion datblygu lleol yn cynnig potensial ar gyfer twf. Trwy eithrio datblygiadau penodol o'r angen i gael caniatâd cynllunio penodol, gall y Gorchmynion hyn gynnig manteision sylweddol i fusnes. Mae busnesau’n gallu bwrw ymlaen â’r datblygiad a ganiateir heb orfod gwneud cais am ganiatâd cynllunio penodol, a thrwy hynny arbed costau cais ac oedi.

2.15 p.m.

Importantly, a local development order can provide businesses with the certainty that a particular development is acceptable in planning terms and can be undertaken without the need for a planning application to be submitted. I commend this Order to the Assembly.

Yn bwysig, gall orchymyn datblygu lleol ddarparu busnesau gyda’r sicrwydd y bydd datblygiad penodol yn dderbyniol o ran cynllunio a gellir ei wneud heb yr angen am gyflwyno cais cynllunio. Cymeradwyaf y Gorchymyn hwn i’r Cynulliad.

The Presiding Officer: I have no speakers on this item, therefore there is no debate for you to reply to, Minister. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I see that there is no objection. Therefore, the proposal is agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Nid oes gennyf siaradwyr ar yr eitem hon, felly nid oes dadl i chi ateb, Weinidog. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes gwrthwynebiad. Felly, caiff y cynnig ei dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

Cynnig NDM4867 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4867 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.5:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

Yn cymeradwyo bod y fersiwn drafft o’r Gorchymyn Rheoliadau Iechyd Meddwl (Cydgysylltu Gofal a Chynllunio Gofal a Thriniaeth) (Cymru) 2011 yn cael ei lunio yn unol â’r fersiwn drafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 8 Tachwedd 2011.

Approves that the draft The Mental Health (Care Co-ordination and Care and Treatment Planning) (Wales) Regulations 2011 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 8 November 2011.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I move the motion.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

The regulations, which have been laid before the Assembly for your consideration today, are being introduced under the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010, which was agreed by the Assembly in November 2010 and received Royal Approval in December 2010. These regulations are being made under Part 2 of the Measure, which will come into force fully on 6 June 2012. Part 2 of the Measure will introduce provisions that ensure that all individuals accepted into secondary mental health services in Wales have a dedicated care co-ordinator and a care and treatment plan, and that service providers, local health boards and local authorities act in a co-ordinated manner to improve the effectiveness of the mental health services that they provide. The regulations that we are debating today deal with a wide range of matters in relation to this part of the Measure and set out requirements ranging from which professionals can be care co-ordinators and the format and content of care and treatment plans, to the information that must be provided to individuals when they are discharged from secondary mental health services.

Mae’r rheoliadau, sydd wedi cael eu gosod gerbron y Cynulliad i chi eu hystyried heddiw, yn cael eu cyflwyno o dan Fesur Iechyd Meddwl (Cymru) 2010, a gytunwyd gan y Cynulliad ym mis Tachwedd 2010 ac a dderbyniodd Cymeradwyaeth Frenhinol ym mis Rhagfyr 2010. Mae’r rheoliadau hyn yn cael eu gwneud o dan Ran 2 o’r Mesur, a fydd yn dod i rym yn llawn ar 6 Mehefin 2012. Bydd Rhan 2 o’r Mesur yn cyflwyno darpariaethau sy’n sicrhau fod pob unigolyn sy’n defnyddio gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl eilaidd yng Nghymru yn cael cydgysylltydd pwrpasol gofal a chynllun gofal a thriniaeth, a bod darparwyr gwasanaethau, byrddau iechyd lleol ac awdurdodau lleol yn gweithredu mewn modd cydgysylltiedig i wella effeithiolrwydd y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a ddarperir ganddynt. Mae’r rheoliadau, yr ydym yn eu trafod heddiw, yn ymdrin ag amrywiaeth eang o faterion mewn perthynas â’r rhan hon o’r Mesur ac yn nodi gofynion yn amrywio o ba weithwyr proffesiynol sy’n gallu bod yn gydlynwyr gofal a’r ffurf a chynnwys cynlluniau gofal a thriniaeth, i’r wybodaeth y mae’n rhaid ei ddarparu i unigolion pan fyddant yn cael eu rhyddhau o wasanaethau iechyd meddwl eilaidd.

These regulations were subject to a full 12-week formal consultation exercise earlier in the year. My officials met around 600 service users, carers, mental health professionals and others during the consultation period at a range of events, and well over 100 comprehensive and detailed written responses were received. Some significant changes have been made to these regulations as a result of that consultation process. For example, we have added further professionals to the list of those who can be care co-ordinators. The form and content of the care and treatment plan that services will be required to adopt, which is contained in Schedule 2 to the regulations, has also been fundamentally revised and differs from that which was originally proposed. The language that is used is now less formal and revisions have been made to link more clearly the planned outcomes for an individual with the mental health services to be provided, with a view to achieving those outcomes. We have also amended the transitional arrangements so that services will be required to ensure that all individuals, regardless of age, will be required to have a care and treatment plan within 60 days of these provisions coming into force.

Yr oedd y rheoliadau hyn yn amodol ar ymarfer ymgynghori ffurfiol o 12 wythnos lawn yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn. Cyfarfu fy swyddogion â thua 600 o ddefnyddwyr gwasanaeth, gofalwyr, gweithwyr proffesiynol iechyd meddwl ac eraill yn ystod y cyfnod ymgynghori mewn amrywiaeth o ddigwyddiadau, a derbyniwyd dros 100 o ymatebion ysgrifenedig cynhwysfawr a manwl. Mae rhai newidiadau sylweddol wedi’u gwneud i’r rheoliadau hyn o ganlyniad i’r broses ymgynghori honno. Er enghraifft, yr ydym wedi ychwanegu gweithwyr proffesiynol pellach i’r rhestr o’r rheini a all fod yn gydlynwyr gofal. Mae ffurf a chynnwys y cynllun gofal a thriniaeth y bydd angen i wasanaethau ei fabwysiadu, a gynhwysir yn Atodlen 2 i’r rheoliadau, hefyd wedi’i ddiwygio’n sylfaenol ac yn wahanol i’r hyn a gynigiwyd yn wreiddiol. Mae’r iaith a ddefnyddir yn awr yn llai ffurfiol a gwnaed diwygiadau i gysylltu’n fwy eglur y canlyniadau a gynlluniwyd ar gyfer unigolyn gyda’r gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl i’w darparu, gyda golwg ar gyflawni’r canlyniadau hynny. Yr ydym hefyd wedi newid y trefniadau pontio fel y bydd yn ofynnol ar wasanaethau i sicrhau fod rhaid i bob unigolyn, waeth beth fo’i oedran, gael cynllun gofal a thriniaeth o fewn 60 diwrnod ar ôl i’r darpariaethau hyn ddod i rym.

We have listened carefully to what stakeholders had to say and I am very grateful to all of those individuals and organisations who found the time to participate. I believe that this legislation has been greatly improved as a result of their expertise and input.

Yr ydym wedi gwrando’n ofalus ar yr hyn a oedd gan randdeiliaid i’w ddweud ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar iawn i’r holl unigolion a’r sefydliadau hynny am ddod o hyd i’r amser i gymryd rhan. Credaf fod y ddeddfwriaeth hon wedi ei wella’n fawr o ganlyniad i’w harbenigedd a mewnbwn.

I also remind Members that the Welsh Government is currently consulting on a code of practice, which will underpin Parts 2 and 3 of the Measure. This will provide services with practical guidance in carrying out their functions under this legislation. It will also inform service users and their carers of what this legislation means for them. It is expected that the final version of this code will be laid before the Assembly in the spring. I commend these regulations to the National Assembly.

Atgoffaf yr Aelodau hefyd fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymgynghori ar god ymarfer, a fydd yn sail Rhannau 2 a 3 o’r Mesur ar hyn o bryd. Bydd hyn yn darparu gwasanaethau ag arweiniad ymarferol wrth gyflawni eu swyddogaethau o dan y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Bydd hefyd yn rhoi gwybod i ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau a’u gofalwyr yr hyn y mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn ei olygu iddynt hwy. Disgwylir i fersiwn terfynol o’r cod hwn cael ei osod gerbron y Cynulliad yn y gwanwyn. Cymeradwyaf y rheoliadau hyn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.

William Graham: I support the motion today and I am grateful to the Minister for the extensive consultation that she has undertaken. Clearly, it is right that all relevant patients should have the support of a dedicated care co-ordinator and receive a plan that is relevant to their needs, regularly reviewed and updated as appropriate throughout the duration of their treatment. I am also grateful to the Minister for agreeing to section 48 in terms of publishing a report on the findings of the review in due course.

William Graham: Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r cynnig heddiw ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am yr ymgynghoriad eang a wnaeth. Yn amlwg, mae’n iawn y dylai pob claf perthnasol gael cefnogaeth cydlynydd gofal pwrpasol a chael cynllun sy’n berthnasol i’w hanghenion, sy’n cael ei adolygu a’i ddiweddaru fel y bo’n briodol drwy gydol eu triniaeth. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog hefyd am gytuno i adran 48 o ran cyhoeddi adroddiad ar ganfyddiadau’r adolygiad maes o law.

Elin Jones: Diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am gyflwyno’r rheoliadau hyn y prynhawn yma. Bydd Plaid Cymru yn eu cefnogi, ond hoffwn wneud ambell sylw ynglŷn â’r diffyg cynnwys yn y rheoliadau am wasanaeth yn newis iaith y claf. Mae adran 4 yn cyfeirio at ofynion i gydgysylltwyr gofal o dan y rheoliadau, ond nid oes cyfeiriad yma nac yn unrhyw le arall yn y rheoliadau at yr angen i’r cydgysylltwyr gofal allu siarad Cymraeg os yw’r claf am wneud hynny wrth dderbyn triniaeth. Mae digon o dystiolaeth ar gael am ddiffygion y gwasanaeth Cymraeg sy’n bodoli o fewn y sector iechyd meddwl, am yr angen a’r galw am y gwasanaeth hwnnw, ac am y ffaith nad yw’r angen na’r galw hwnnw’n cael ei ddiwallu. Mae’n debyg eich bod wedi cael argymhellion gan y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar brif ffrydio’r Gymraeg yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad ar y rheoliadau hyn. Yn ôl yr argymhellion hynny, yr oedd y grŵp am weld cyfeiriad penodol at wasanaeth Cymraeg yn y ddeddfwriaeth. Serch hynny, nid ydych wedi derbyn yr argymhellion hynny. Yr oedd eich datganiad yn dweud eich bod wedi derbyn nifer o’r argymhellion a wnaed, a’ch bod wedi gwella’r ddeddfwriaeth drwy’r broses ymgynghori. Hoffwn wybod pam y gwrthodwyd yr argymhellion ynghylch cyfeirio at yr angen am wasanaeth Cymraeg yn y ddeddfwriaeth. Byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe gallech ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw.

Elin Jones: I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations this afternoon. Plaid Cymru will support them, but I would like to make a few comments about the lack of content in the regulations on services in the patient’s chosen language. Section 4 refers to the requirements for care co-ordinators under the regulations, but there is no mention here or anywhere else in the regulations that these care co-ordinators need to be able to communicate through the medium of Welsh where that is the patient’s choice in receiving treatment. There is plenty of evidence of the deficiencies of Welsh-language services within the mental health sector, and the demand for that service, and the fact that that demand is currently not being met. It is likely that you received recommendations from the task and finish group on mainstreaming the Welsh language during the consultation on these regulations. Those recommendations stated that the group wanted a specific reference to Welsh-language services in the legislation. Despite this, you did not accept that recommendation. In your statement, you said that you had accepted a number of the recommendations made, and that you had improved the legislation through the consultation process. I would like to know why you rejected the recommendations on placing in the legislation the need for Welsh-medium servcies. It would be useful if you could answer that question.

Yr ydych wedi sôn am yr ymgynghoriad yr ydych yn ei gynnal ar hyn o bryd ar y cod ymarfer. Hoffwn glywed heddiw mai eich bwriad yw rhoi arweiniad clir fel Gweinidog yn y cod ymarfer—gan na fydd y fath arweiniad yn cael ei gynnwys yn y ddeddfwriaeth—eich bod am weld y rheoliadau’n cael eu gweithredu, gydag anghenion iaith defnyddwyr yn cael eu diwallu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, yn ogystal â’r Saesneg. Mae angen cadw mewn cof mai mater o hawl unigolyn bregus i gael gwasanaeth ymatebol a phriodol yw hwn, nid mater o’r iaith Gymraeg yn gyffredinol. Yn fy marn i, byddai’n well pe bai’r mater hwn wedi’i ddiffinio’n glir o fewn y rheoliadau. Fodd bynnag, yn absenoldeb hynny, a wnewch chi roi sicrwydd y bydd y cod ymarfer yn rhoi cyfle ichi wneud yn iawn am y diffyg hwnnw?

You have mentioned the consultation that you are currently carrying out on the code of practice. I would like to hear you saying today that it is your intention to give a clear direction, as Minister, in the code of practice—as such direction will not be included in the legislation—that you want to see the regulations being implemented, with the linguistic needs of users being met through the medium of Welsh as well as English. We need to bear in mind that this is a matter of a vulnerable individual’s right to an appropriate and responsive service, not an issue of the Welsh language more generally. In my view, it would have been better had this been clearly defined within the regulations. However, in the absence of such a definition, will you give an assurance that the code of practice will give you an opportunity to put right that deficiency?

Julie James: I also rise to support these regulations, and I am delighted to see them. The explanatory note says that the regulations will support the refocusing of care and treatment planning around relevant patients, and will involve them in decision-making around their care and treatment. Better outcomes are expected from that process for the patients. I am delighted that the regulations make it even clearer that there should be space for each person suffering with a mental illness to discuss their eight life areas and to ensure that they are properly reflected in their care and treatment plans. All of the evidence shows that, when service users have a holistic, recovery-focused care plan, which includes space to set goals in all areas of life, they are far more likely to make progress in their recovery. I am delighted that the regulations encourage more cohesive and focused cross-discipline working among mental health and social care professionals across the service, and I very much welcome the regulations in their entirety.

Julie James: Yr wyf hefyd yn codi i gefnogi’r rheoliadau hyn, ac yr wyf wrth fy modd yn eu gweld nhw. Dywed y nodyn esboniadol y bydd y rheoliadau yn cefnogi newid pwyslais cynllunio gofal a thriniaeth o gwmpas cleifion perthnasol, a bydd yn eu cynnwys mewn penderfyniadau ynghylch eu gofal a’u triniaeth. Disgwylir gwell canlyniadau o’r broses honno ar gyfer y cleifion. Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y rheoliadau yn ei gwneud yn gliriach fyth y dylai fod lle ar gyfer pob person sy’n dioddef â salwch meddwl i drafod eu wyth maes bywyd a sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu hadlewyrchu’n briodol yn eu cynlluniau gofal a thriniaeth. Mae’r holl dystiolaeth yn dangos, pan fydd gan ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau gynllun gofal sy’n canolbwyntio ar adferiad holistaidd, sy’n cynnwys lle i osod nodau ym mhob maes o fywyd, maent yn llawer mwy tebygol o wneud cynnydd yn eu hadferiad. Yr wyf wrth fy modd bod y rheoliadau yn annog gwaith mwy cydlynol a ffocws ar waith traws-disgyblaeth ymhlith gweithwyr proffesiynol iechyd meddwl a gofal cymdeithasol ar draws y gwasanaeth, ac yr wyf yn croesawu’n fawr y rheoliadau yn eu cyfanrwydd.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I thank Members for their support. I will address the two specific questions raised. Elin Jones raised the issue of the Welsh language. We want to ensure that mental health services are culturally and linguistically appropriate for the populations that they serve. The guidance that we have issued to service providers, and the guidance that we will be issuing in future, makes it very clear that this is the case. In relation to the Welsh language, Members will be aware that the Government has a task and finish group on the Welsh language and mental health, which reports to my colleague Gwenda Thomas, Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services. The group has been involved in the development of the code of practice that will underpin this part of the Measure. The draft code sets out our expectations in relation to the provision of services in the Welsh language. The guiding principles of that draft code state that mental health services in Wales must be underpinned by the principle that the Welsh and English languages shall be treated on an equitable basis. The draft code says that people in Wales should, where possible, be given the option of assessment, treatment and provision of information in Welsh. It also says that all possible steps should be taken to ensure that services are available for Welsh speakers in the language that best meets their individual needs, and that services are suitably developed and supported to be delivered through the medium of English and Welsh. Local health boards and local authorities should promote bilingual services. These should already be available, and capacity for providing bilingual services should be increased where there is a shortfall of Welsh-speaking staff. The onus is on health boards and local authorities to provide the appropriate service, rather than on an individual having to ask for it. I give you the assurance that we will continue to work with the task and finish group in developing the final version of the code, but I hope that you will agree that the expectations that we have set out leave no doubt about the importance that we place on this issue. I am sure that the Deputy Minister has also heard your comments, Elin.

Y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Diolch i’r Aelodau am eu cefnogaeth. Byddaf yn mynd i’r afael â’r ddau gwestiwn penodol a godwyd. Cododd Elin Jones mater yr iaith Gymraeg. Yr ydym am sicrhau bod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn ddiwylliannol ac yn ieithyddol briodol ar gyfer y poblogaethau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu. Mae’r canllawiau yr ydym wedi’u rhoi i ddarparwyr gwasanaethau, ac mae’r canllawiau y byddwn yn eu cyhoeddi yn y dyfodol, yn ei wneud yn glir iawn bod hyn yn wir. Mewn perthynas â’r iaith Gymraeg, bydd Aelodau’n ymwybodol fod y Llywodraeth wedi sefydlu grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar yr iaith Gymraeg ac iechyd meddwl, sy’n adrodd i fy nghyd-Aelod, Gwenda Thomas, y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Mae’r grŵp wedi bod yn rhan o’r gwaith o ddatblygu’r cod ymarfer a fydd yn sail i’r rhan hon o’r Mesur. Mae’r Cod drafft yn nodi ein disgwyliadau mewn perthynas â darparu gwasanaethau yn yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae egwyddorion arweiniol y Cod drafft yn datgan bod rhaid i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru cael eu tanategu gan yr egwyddor y bydd y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn cael eu trin ar sail gyfartal. Mae’r Cod drafft yn dweud bod pobl yng Nghymru, lle bo modd, yn cael y dewis o asesiad, triniaeth a darparu gwybodaeth yn y Gymraeg. Mae hefyd yn dweud y dylai pob cam posibl cael ei gymryd i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau ar gael ar gyfer siaradwyr Cymraeg yn yr iaith sy’n bodloni eu hanghenion unigol orau, a bod gwasanaethau’n cael eu datblygu’n addas a’u cefnogi i gael eu darparu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg. Dylai byrddau iechyd lleol ac awdurdodau lleol hyrwyddo gwasanaethau dwyieithog. Dylai’r rhain fod ar gael eisoes, a dylid cynyddu capasiti ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau dwyieithog pan fo prinder staff sy’n siarad Cymraeg. Mae cyfrifoldeb ar fyrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu’r gwasanaeth priodol yn hytrach nag ar unigolyn yn gorfod gofyn amdano. Rhoddaf i chi y sicrwydd y byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda’r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i ddatblygu fersiwn derfynol y cod, ond gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cytuno nad yw’r disgwyliadau yr ydym wedi’u nodi yn gadael unrhyw amheuaeth am y  pwysigrwydd a roddwn ar y mater hwn. Yr wyf yn siŵr bod y Dirprwy Weinidog hefyd wedi clywed eich sylwadau, Elin.

In relation to Julie James’s point, the fact that we are now considering these eight areas of life has been very much welcomed. Again, the draft code of practice, which is currently out for consultation, contains detailed guidance on how each of the areas of life should be considered in the assessment, and we will continue to engage with service providers as we take this forward.

Mewn perthynas â phwynt Julie James, mae’r ffaith ein bod bellach yn ystyried yr wyth maes bywyd wedi cael ei groesawu’n fawr. Unwaith eto, mae’r cod ymarfer drafft, sydd ar hyn o bryd yn destun ymgynghoriad, yn cynnwys canllawiau manwl ar sut y dylid ystyried pob un o’r meysydd bywyd yn yr asesiad, a byddwn yn parhau i ymgysylltu â darparwyr gwasanaeth wrth inni fwrw ymlaen â hyn.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I see that there are no objections. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf nad oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad. Caiff y cynnig ei dderbyn yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Cynnig NDM4866 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4866 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.5:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

Yn cymeradwyo bod y fersiwn drafft o’r Gorchymyn Mesur Diwydiant Cig Coch (Cymru) 2010 (Diwygio) 2011 yn cael ei lunio yn unol â’r fersiwn drafft a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 8 Tachwedd 2011.

Approves that the draft The Red Meat Industry (Wales) Measure 2010 (Amendment) Order 2011 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 8 November 2011.

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries, Food and European Programmes (Alun Davies): I move the motion.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd (Alun Davies): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Members will know how important the red meat industry is to Wales. Red meat contributes some 39 per cent of Wales’s total agricultural output, and 25 per cent of the total levy on sheep collected in Great Britain. A thriving red meat industry is vital to Wales and important to the UK as a whole.

Bydd yr Aelodau’n gwybod pa mor bwysig yw’r diwydiant cig coch i Gymru. Mae cig coch yn cyfrannu rhyw 39 y cant o gyfanswm allbwn amaethyddol Cymru, a 25 y cant o gyfanswm yr ardoll ar ddefaid a gasglwyd ym Mhrydain Fawr. Mae diwydiant cig coch ffyniannus yn hanfodol i Gymru ac yn bwysig i’r DU gyfan.

The draft Order before Members today is a key part of the red meat levy regime in Wales. However, before I deal with the specific provisions of the draft Order, I would like to give Members some background information on why the draft Order is before us today. The purpose of Red Meat Industry (Wales) Measure 2010 was to give powers to Welsh Ministers to develop, promote and market the red meat industry in Wales, to include raising a levy on the red meat sector. At present, the red meat levy is set by the Welsh Levy Board, but when the Measure comes fully into force on 1 April 2012, the power to set the levy will be vested in Welsh Ministers and the Welsh Levy Board will be abolished.

Mae’r Gorchymyn drafft sydd gerbron yr Aelodau heddiw yn rhan allweddol o’r gyfundrefn ardoll cig coch yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, cyn i mi ymdrin â darpariaethau penodol y Gorchymyn drafft, hoffwn roi rhywfaint o wybodaeth gefndirol ar pam y mae’r Gorchymyn drafft ger ein bron heddiw. Diben y Mesur Diwydiant Cig Coch (Cymru) 2010 yw rhoi pwerau i Weinidogion Cymru i ddatblygu, hyrwyddo a marchnata’r diwydiant cig coch yng Nghymru, i gynnwys codi ardoll ar y sector cig coch. Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r ardoll cig coch yn cael ei osod gan Fwrdd Ardollau Cymru, ond pan ddaw’r Mesur i rym yn llawn ar 1 Ebrill 2012, bydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn cael eu breinio â’r pŵer i bennu ardoll a bydd Bwrdd Ardollau Cymru yn cael ei ddiddymu.

The draft Order before Members today is to be made using powers contained in that Measure. The relevant powers to make the draft Order were commenced in part after the Measure received Royal Approval and in part by the Red Meat Industry (Wales) Measure 2010 (Commencement, Transitional and Saving Provisions) Order 2011, which came into force for the purposes of a draft Order on 28 November 2011. The Measure provides that Welsh Ministers can, by Order, amend the provisions set out in the Measure, but can only do so in accordance with the affirmative procedure. I am therefore asking Members today to approve the draft Order that has been laid before the Assembly.

Mae’r Gorchymyn drafft gerbron Aelodau heddiw yn cael ei wneud gan ddefnyddio pwerau a geir yn y Mesur hwnnw. Mae’r pwerau perthnasol i wneud y Gorchymyn drafft yn cael eu cychwyn yn rhannol ar ôl i’r Mesur dderbyn Cydsyniad Brenhinol ac yn rhannol gan y Mesur Diwydiant Cig Coch (Cymru) 2010 (Cychwyn a Throsiannol a Darpariaethau Arbed) 2011, a ddaeth i rym at ddibenion Gorchymyn drafft ar 28 Tachwedd 2011. Mae’r Mesur yn darparu y gall Gweinidogion Cymru, drwy Orchymyn, ddiwygio darpariaethau a nodir yn y Mesur, ond gallant ond gwneud hynny yn unol â’r weithdrefn gadarnhaol. Felly, yr wyf yn gofyn i’r Aelodau heddiw i gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn drafft sydd wedi ei osod gerbron y Cynulliad.

The purpose of the draft Order before us today is to amend the maximum levy rates that can be set by Welsh Ministers in relation to the cattle, sheep and pig sector. The current maximum levy rates are set out in the Schedule to the Measure, but for reasons that I shall come to, these maximum rates are too low. The draft Order will amend the Schedule to the Measure to increase those rates. The maximum levy rates have remained unchanged since 2001. Just last year, it was necessary for Welsh Ministers to approve a Welsh producers levy rate in excess of the maximum set out in the Welsh Levy Board Order 2008. The new maximums are envisaged to take into account inflationary increases over the next 10 years. Welsh Ministers will set the levy rates annually. Any increases in rates will only take place following industry advice. It is not practical to set a new maximum levy rate in legislation every year, and that is why the draft Order, we hope, is planning for the future. I therefore ask Members to approve the draft Order today.

Diben y Gorchymyn drafft sydd ger ein bron heddiw yw diwygio’r cyfraddau ardoll uchaf y gellir eu gosod gan Weinidogion Cymru mewn perthynas â’r sector gwartheg, defaid a moch. Mae’r cyfraddau ardoll uchaf presennol wedi eu nodi yn yr Atodlen i’r Mesur, ond am resymau y dof atynt, mae’r cyfraddau uchaf hyn yn rhy isel. Bydd y Gorchymyn drafft yn diwygio’r Atodlen i’r Mesur i gynyddu’r cyfraddau hynny. Mae’r cyfraddau ardoll uchaf wedi aros yr un fath ers 2001. Dim ond y llynedd, roedd angen i Weinidogion Cymru gymeradwyo cyfradd ardoll cynhyrchwyr Cymru yn fwy na’r uchafswm a nodir yn Rheol Bwrdd Ardollau Cymru 2008. Ragwelir y bydd yr uchafsymiau newydd yn ystyried cynnydd mewn chwyddiant dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Bydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn gosod y cyfraddau ardoll yn flynyddol. Bydd unrhyw gynnydd mewn cyfraddau ond yn digwydd yn dilyn cyngor y diwydiant. Nid yw’n ymarferol pennu cyfradd ardoll uchaf newydd mewn deddfwriaeth bob blwyddyn, a dyna pam y mae’r Gorchymyn drafft, rydym yn gobeithio, yn cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol. Felly, gofynnaf i Aelodau gymeradwyo’r Gorchymyn drafft heddiw.

Antoinette Sandbach: I am grateful to the Deputy Minister for bringing the draft Order forward. It is quite clear from the Radcliffe review that there was clear support for the levy, in effect, to be made the responsibility of the Assembly rather than elsewhere. Clearly, the abattoir business is extremely important to the Welsh red meat industry, and there are some concerns about the levies that will be applied. In these very difficult times, when costs on businesses are mounting, I would ask the Deputy Minister to bear in mind that, even though he is giving himself the power to set rates above the rate of inflation, he is building that capacity in effectively for 10 years.

Antoinette Sandbach: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i’r Dirprwy Weinidog am ddod â’r Gorchymyn drafft yn ei flaen. Mae’n eithaf clir o adolygiad Radcliffe bod cefnogaeth glir ar gyfer yr ardoll, i bob pwrpas, i gael ei wneud yn gyfrifoldeb y Cynulliad yn hytrach nag yn mannau eraill. Yn amlwg, mae’r busnes lladd-dy yn hynod o bwysig i ddiwydiant cig coch Cymru, ac mae rhai pryderon am yr ardollau a fydd yn cael eu cymhwyso. Yn y cyfnod anodd iawn hwn, pan fydd costau ar fusnesau yn cynyddu, byddwn yn gofyn i’r Dirprwy Weinidog i gadw mewn cof, er ei fod yn rhoi iddo’i hun y pŵer i bennu cyfraddau sy’n uwch na chyfradd chwyddiant, ei fod yn ymgorffori’r capasiti hwnnw, i bob pwrpas, am 10 mlynedd.

2.30 p.m.

I know that he has visited many abattoirs—in Llanrwst and elsewhere in north Wales—and I ask that he take into account that it is vital that small and medium-sized abattoirs, in particular, face a minimal increase in costs. I support the draft regulations as they have been brought forward.

Gwn ei fod wedi ymweld â llawer o ladd-dai—yn Llanrwst a lleoedd eraill yn y gogledd—ac yr wyf yn gofyn iddo ystyried ei bod yn hanfodol bod lladd-dai bach a chanolig, yn enwedig, yn wynebu’r cynnydd costau lleiaf posibl. Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r rheoliadau drafft fel y maent wedi’u dwyn ymlaen.

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes (Alun Davies): I thank the Conservative spokesperson for those words and I commend the motion to the Chamber.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd (Alun Davies): Diolchaf i lefarydd y Ceidwadwyr am y geiriau hynny ac yr wyf yn cymeradwyo’r cynnig i’r Siambr.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I see that there are no objections. The proposal is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order No. 12.36.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad? Gwelaf nad oes. Mae’r cynnig felly wedi’i gytuno yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Motion agreed.

Y Gyllideb Flynyddol/Derfynol
The Annual/Final Budget

Cynnig NDM4870 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4870 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 20.25:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.25:

Yn cymeradwyo’r Gyllideb Flynyddol ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol 2012-13, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno gan y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ ar 29 Tachwedd 2011.

Approves the Annual Budget for the financial year 2012-2013 laid in the Table Office by the Minister for Finance and Leader of the House on 29 November 2011.

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): I move the motion.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

I open this final budget debate for 2012-13 in the most daunting economic and financial times for this country. In response to the Chancellor’s statement last week, the Institute for Fiscal Studies concluded that there has been no period like this in the last 60 years. It gives me no pleasure to draw the obvious conclusion that the Chancellor’s model of recovery, via his deep deficit reduction plan, is not working. He presumed that there would be export-led growth, with private investment stepping in to provide jobs as the public sector was cut back. That is not happening. Unemployment levels are expected to rise over and above the 9 per cent that we now face in Wales and be consistently 1 per cent higher than previous forecasts suggest. Few of us envisaged how badly things could deteriorate in just 10 months. The Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that growth will be less than 1 per cent this year and next. We are perilously close to another recession.  

Agoraf y ddadl hon ar y gyllideb derfynol ar gyfer 2012-13 yn yr amseroedd mwyaf brawychus i’r wlad hon o ran y sefyllfa economaidd ac ariannol. Mewn ymateb i ddatganiad y Canghellor yr wythnos diwethaf, daeth y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid i’r casgliad na fu unrhyw gyfnod fel hyn yn y 60 mlynedd diwethaf. Nid yw’n bleser imi ddod i’r casgliad amlwg nad yw model y Canghellor o adennill, drwy ei gynllun o leihau’r diffyg yn ddwfn, yn gweithio. Yr oedd yn rhagdybio y byddai twf allforio, gyda buddsoddiad preifat yn camu i mewn i ddarparu swyddi wrth i’r sector cyhoeddus gael ei gwtogi. Nid yw hynny’n digwydd. Y disgwyl yw y bydd lefelau diweithdra yn codi uwchlaw’r 9 y cant yr ydym bellach yn wynebu yng Nghymru ac yn gyson yn 1 y cant yn uwch nag y mae rhagolygon blaenorol yn awgrymu. Ychydig ohonom a oedd yn rhagweld pa mor wael y gallai pethau waethygu mewn dim ond 10 mis. Mae’r Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol yn amcangyfrif y bydd twf yn llai nag 1 y cant eleni a’r flwyddyn nesaf. Yr ydym yn enbydus o agos at ddirwasgiad arall.

The UK Government is now pursuing an approach that mirrors the measures that we have been taking for some time: increased investment in early years, education and skills, and using capital infrastructure to assist economic recovery.

Mae Llywodraeth y DU bellach yn dilyn dull sy’n adlewyrchu’r mesurau yr ydym wedi eu cymryd ers peth amser: mwy o fuddsoddi mewn blynyddoedd cynnar, addysg a sgiliau, a defnyddio seilwaith cyfalaf i gynorthwyo adferiad economaidd.

There were some positive new steps announced in the Chancellor’s statement last week, such as the commitment to work with us to improve the M4, the decision to defer the fuel duty increase and the extension of the business rates relief scheme. We have also received additional infrastructure investment consequentials that we can use to help grow our economy and protect jobs. However, while this additional investment is welcome, the UK Government’s plans for the economy still fall well short of what we need.

Cyhoeddwyd rhai camau newydd cadarnhaol yn natganiad y Canghellor yr wythnos diwethaf, fel yr ymrwymiad i weithio gyda ni i wella’r M4, y penderfyniad i ohirio cynnydd dyletswydd tanwydd ac ymestyn y cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi busnes. Yr ydym hefyd wedi derbyn symiau canlyniadol buddsoddiad seilwaith ychwanegol y gallwn eu defnyddio i helpu i dyfu ein heconomi ac amddiffyn swyddi. Fodd bynnag, er bod y buddsoddiad ychwanegol hwn i’w groesawu, mae cynlluniau Llywodraeth y DU ar gyfer yr economi yn dal yn disgyn yn brin iawn o’r hyn y mae arnom ei angen.

By 2014-15, our capital budget will be 38 per cent lower in real terms than in 2009-10.  However, I look forward to continued inter-governmental discussions with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the UK Government Minister for infrastructure in the new year, and I am meeting Scottish Ministers later this week to consider how we can best alleviate this position.

Erbyn 2014-15, bydd ein cyllideb gyfalaf yn 38 y cant yn is mewn termau real nag yn 2009-10. Fodd bynnag, edrychaf ymlaen at drafodaethau rhynglywodraethol parhaus gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys a’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth y DU dros seilwaith yn y flwyddyn newydd, a byddaf yn cyfarfod â Gweinidogion yr Alban yn nes ymlaen yr wythnos hon i ystyried sut y gallwn liniaru’r sefyllfa hon orau.

Through the budget scrutiny process and our discussions with the opposition parties, it is clear that the focus that we have given to this budget for growth and jobs has been right. It is an approach that has been further endorsed by the Office for Budget Responsibility. We all agree that focusing on the economic recovery and seeking to cushion Wales from the current economic storm is vital. In recent weeks, we have announced three complementary packages to stimulate the economy—packages designed to get the economy moving and support sustainable growth. We have announced £55 million of new investment in Welsh small and medium-sized enterprises this year to support business growth, an additional £87 million of capital investment over the next two years across Wales, and an economic stimulus package of £38.9 million that we were able to agree with the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Also, the Minister for Education and Skills announced yesterday the major £1.4 billion twenty-first century schools programme of investment for our schools.

Drwy’r broses graffu ar y gyllideb a’n trafodaethau gyda’r gwrthbleidiau, mae’n amlwg bod ein ffocws ar y gyllideb hon ar gyfer twf a swyddi wedi bod yn gywir. Mae’n ddull sydd wedi’i chadarnhau ymhellach gan y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol. Yr ydym i gyd yn cytuno bod canolbwyntio ar adferiad economaidd a cheisio lleddfu’r storm economaidd gyfredol i Gymru yn hanfodol. Yn yr wythnosau diwethaf, yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi tri phecyn ategol i ysgogi’r economi—pecynnau a gynlluniwyd i wneud i’r economi symud a chefnogi twf cynaliadwy. Yr ydym wedi cyhoeddi £55 miliwn o fuddsoddiad newydd mewn busnesau bach a chanolig yng Nghymru eleni i gefnogi twf busnes, £87 miliwn ychwanegol o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf ar draws Cymru, a phecyn ysgogi economaidd o £38.9 miliwn yr oeddem yn gallu cytuno â Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru. Hefyd, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau ddoe’r buddsoddiad mawr o £1.4 biliwn ar gyfer rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

We have progressed the local government borrowing initiative, whereby we are increasing the revenue support to local authorities, enabling them to increase their borrowing prudentially to finance highways improvement schemes, and are considering how best we can utilise borrowing activities in the housing sector. Together with the infrastructure investment initiatives recently announced, and with the development of a Wales infrastructure investment plan, these packages will boost economic recovery and support our public services, generating immediate benefits for our economy while complementing our long-term aims.

Yr ydym wedi dwyn y fenter benthyca llywodraeth leol ymlaen, lle yr ydym yn cynyddu’r cymorth refeniw i awdurdodau lleol ac yn eu galluogi i gynyddu eu benthyca yn ddarbodus i ariannu cynlluniau gwella priffyrdd, ac yr ydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn ddefnyddio gweithgareddau benthyca yn y sector tai orau. Ynghyd â’r mentrau buddsoddi seilwaith a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar a datblygu cynllun buddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru, bydd y pecynnau hyn yn hybu adferiad economaidd ac yn cefnogi ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, gan sicrhau manteision uniongyrchol i’n heconomi wrth ategu ein nodau hirdymor.

Simon Thomas: Will you give way?

Simon Thomas: A wnewch chi ildio?

Jane Hutt: No. If you raise the point in the debate, I will respond.  

Jane Hutt: Na wnaf. Os ydych yn codi’r pwynt yn y ddadl, byddaf yn ymateb.

It is essential in these unprecedented, challenging financial times that we have a budget that will stimulate jobs and growth for Wales. We do not all agree on how to achieve those ends, but I believe that there is something in this budget that every Member should be able to support. It has been the Welsh Government’s priority over recent weeks to explore these areas and secure a stable budget for Wales to our published timetable. It is essential that that timetable is met so that local authorities and local health boards can set their own budgets, and, crucially, to give the private sector the confidence and stability to plan its future investment programmes.

Mae’n hanfodol yn yr amseroedd ariannol heriol a digynsail hyn bod gennym gyllideb a fydd yn ysgogi swyddi a thwf ar gyfer Cymru. Nid ydym i gyd yn cytuno ar sut mae cyflawni’r nodau hynny, ond credaf fod rhywbeth yn y gyllideb hon y dylai pob Aelod allu cefnogi. Blaenoriaeth Llywodraeth Cymru dros yr wythnosau diwethaf oedd archwilio’r meysydd hyn a sicrhau cyllideb sefydlog i Gymru ar yr amserlen a gyhoeddasom. Mae’n hanfodol bod yr amserlen honno yn cael ei bodloni fel y gall awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd lleol benderfynu ar eu cyllidebau eu hunain, ac, yn hollbwysig, i roi hyder a sefydlogrwydd i’r sector preifat i gynllunio ei raglenni buddsoddi yn y dyfodol.

We have increased our planned investment in the NHS by £288 million over the next three years. I recognise that there are concerns about the pressures that the NHS faces, but I am confident that this level of investment, accompanied by a range of efficiency and service improvement initiatives, will help us to deliver the NHS that we all aspire to.

Yr ydym wedi cynyddu ein buddsoddiad arfaethedig yn y GIG gan £288 miliwn dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Yr wyf yn cydnabod bod pryderon ynghylch y pwysau a wynebir gan y GIG, ond yr wyf yn hyderus y bydd y lefel hon o fuddsoddiad, ynghyd ag ystod o fentrau effeithlonrwydd a gwella gwasanaeth, yn ein helpu i ddarparu’r GIG yr ydym i gyd yn dyheu amdano.

I also believe that it is our shared responsibility to address the needs of the poorest and most vulnerable people in Wales who are hardest hit by the economic crisis. We remain committed to the best possible start for our children. I have previously outlined our plans to invest £55 million in doubling the number of children who benefit from Flying Start to 36,000. It is a scheme that goes beyond simply providing free childcare support for children from disadvantaged backgrounds, and offers support to the whole family as well as jobs and training prospects for the parents. During this expansion, we will need in excess of 1,000 additional childcare workers to deliver the childcare element of the programme. These will be welcome job opportunities for people working in some of our most disadvantaged communities.

Credaf hefyd fod gennym gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd i fynd i’r afael ag anghenion y bobl dlotaf a mwyaf agored i niwed yng Nghymru sydd yn dioddef waethaf oherwydd yr argyfwng economaidd. Yr ydym yn dal wedi ymrwymo i gael y dechrau gorau posibl i’n plant. Amlinellais ein cynlluniau i fuddsoddi £55 miliwn i ddyblu nifer y plant sy’n elwa ar Ddechrau’n Deg i 36,000. Mae’n gynllun sy’n mynd y tu hwnt i ddarparu cymorth gofal plant am ddim i blant o gefndiroedd difreintiedig, ac mae’n cynnig cymorth i’r teulu cyfan yn ogystal â swyddi a chyfleoedd hyfforddiant i’r rhieni. Yn ystod yr ehangiad hwn, bydd angen mwy na 1,000 o weithwyr gofal plant ychwanegol i gyflwyno elfen gofal plant y rhaglen. Caiff y swyddi hyn eu croesawu gan bobl sy’n gweithio yn rhai o’n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.

In discussion with the Welsh Liberal Democrats, we have agreed that we could go further still and provide a higher level of support once these children are in the school system. I am pleased to include a new grant—the pupil deprivation grant—in the final budget, which will direct support to children that need it most. With an additional £20 million, we will be able to provide direct support to schools of £450 for every child eligible for free school meals. I am pleased that 70,000 children in primary and secondary schools the length and breadth of Wales will benefit as a result of this policy.

Mewn trafodaeth â’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru, yr ydym wedi cytuno y gallem fynd hyd yn oed ymhellach a darparu lefel uwch o gefnogaeth unwaith mae’r plant hyn yn y system ysgolion. Yr wyf yn falch o gynnwys grant newydd—y grant amddifadedd disgyblion—yn y gyllideb derfynol, a fydd yn cyfeirio cymorth at y plant sydd ei angen fwyaf. Gyda £20 miliwn ychwanegol, byddwn yn gallu darparu cymorth uniongyrchol i ysgolion o £450 ar gyfer pob plentyn sy’n gymwys i gael prydau ysgol am ddim. Yr wyf yn falch y bydd 70,000 o blant ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd ar hyd a lled Cymru yn elwa o ganlyniad i’r polisi hwn.

Due to our careful financial management, we are funding this enhanced support on top of the protection that is already included in funding for schools in the education and skills main expenditure group and the local government and communities MEG. This funding is vital to lay the foundations for our future economic success.

Oherwydd ein rheolaeth ariannol ofalus, yr ydym yn ariannu’r cymorth gwell hwn yn ychwanegol at yr amddiffyniad sydd eisoes wedi’i gynnwys yn yr arian ar gyfer ysgolion yng ngrŵp gwariant addysg a sgiliau a phrif grŵp gwariant llywodraeth leol a chymunedau. Mae’r arian hwn yn hanfodol i osod y sylfeini ar gyfer ein llwyddiant economaidd yn y dyfodol.

I have always been clear that an investment in schools and health is an investment in the future of our economy and society. However, the budget also contains direct support for the economy. The budget for business, enterprise, technology and science will be maintained at previously planned levels. That sees the revenue support growing over the budget period. We will also be supporting a £75 million investment in new apprenticeships through the Job Growth Wales scheme. These are significant investments. 

Yr wyf wastad wedi bod yn glir bod buddsoddi mewn ysgolion ac iechyd yn fuddsoddiad yn nyfodol ein heconomi a’n cymdeithas. Fodd bynnag, mae’r gyllideb hefyd yn cynnwys cefnogaeth uniongyrchol i’r economi. Caiff y gyllideb ar gyfer busnes, menter, technoleg a gwyddoniaeth ei chynnal ar lefelau a gynlluniwyd o’r blaen. Mae hynny’n golygu y bydd y gefnogaeth refeniw yn tyfu dros gyfnod y gyllideb. Byddwn hefyd yn cefnogi buddsoddiad £75 miliwn mewn prentisiaethau newydd trwy gynllun Twf Swyddi Cymru. Mae’r rhain yn fuddsoddiadau sylweddol.

It is also why I am announcing the extension of the small business rates relief scheme by a further six months to March 2013, in line with the UK Government’s recent announcement. Our decision to extend the scheme means that well over half of business properties in Wales will benefit from this relief, which clearly demonstrates our commitment to sustaining business and enterprise through the continuing difficult economic conditions.

Hefyd, dyna pam yr wyf yn cyhoeddi estyn y cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi busnesau bach am chwe mis ychwanegol i Fawrth 2013, yn unol â chyhoeddiad diweddar Llywodraeth y DU. Mae ein penderfyniad i estyn y cynllun yn golygu y bydd mwy na hanner o eiddo busnes yng Nghymru yn elwa o’r rhyddhad hwn, sy’n dangos yn glir ein hymrwymiad i gynnal busnes a menter trwy’r amgylchiadau economaidd anodd parhaol.

Since the UK coalition Government’s budget in June of last year, we have warned that budgets were being cut too far and too fast. We advised that the most responsible thing that we can all do in times such as this is to provide an economic stimulus wherever we can. We have played our part in deficit reduction, but we have always believed that there is a middle ground, where we can reduce the debt without stalling the economy. What I put to you today is a budget for growth and jobs that responds to the deeply troubling and alarming times that we are living in. I believe that we can govern responsibly with our commitment to social justice and economic renewal, which is the grain of values of elected representatives and parties across this Chamber, and the commitment of this Welsh Government. I commend this budget to you.

Ers cyllideb Llywodraeth glymblaid y DU ym mis Mehefin y llynedd, yr ydym wedi rhybuddio bod cyllidebau yn cael eu torri yn rhy bell ac yn rhy gyflym. Gwnaethom gynghori mai’r peth mwyaf cyfrifol y gallwn i gyd ei wneud ar adegau fel hyn yw rhoi ysgogiad economaidd lle bynnag y gallwn. Yr ydym wedi chwarae ein rhan mewn lleihau’r diffyg, ond yr ydym bob amser wedi credu bod tir canol, lle y gallwn leihau’r ddyled heb oedi’r economi. Yr hyn a gyflwynais i chi heddiw yw cyllideb ar gyfer twf a swyddi sydd yn ymateb i’r amseroedd hynod o anodd a brawychus yr ydym yn byw ynddynt. Credaf y gallwn lywodraethu’n gyfrifol gyda’n hymrwymiad i gyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac adfywio economaidd, sy’n raen egwyddorion cynrychiolwyr etholedig a phleidiau ar draws y Siambr hon, ac ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth hon yng Nghymru. Cymeradwyaf y gyllideb hon i chi.

Paul Davies: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i ymateb i gyllideb y Llywodraeth y prynhawn yma. Yr wyf am ei gwneud yn glir o’r cychwyn fy mod yn derbyn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gosod y gyllideb hon mewn amgylchiadau ariannol anodd iawn. Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod i gyd yn cytuno ein bod yn wynebu cyfnod economaidd anodd iawn, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond hefyd ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Yr wyf yn siŵr ein bod i gyd yn cydnabod fod yn rhaid delio â’r ddyled a’r diffyg cenedlaethol, ac felly mae penderfyniadau anodd yn gorfod cael eu gwneud. Felly, mae’n hollbwysig fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gosod cyllideb synhwyrol. Yr ydym ni ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ganolbwyntio arian trethdalwyr ar iechyd, addysg a’r economi. Mae angen inni sicrhau fod bob £1 yn cael ei gwario yn effeithiol gan gyflawni canlyniadau real i bobl Cymru. Dyna’r her i’r Llywodraeth. Yn anffodus, nid yw’r gyllideb hon yn cwrdd ag angenion pobl Cymru, felly nid yw’n syndod y bydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn gwrthwynebu’r gyllideb hon fel ag y mae.

Paul Davies: I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the Government’s budget this afternoon. Let me make it clear from the outset that I accept that the Welsh Government laid this budget in very difficult financial circumstances. I am sure that we all agree that we are facing a very difficult economic period, not only in Wales but throughout the UK. I am sure that we all recognise that we have to deal with the national debt and deficit, and therefore difficult decisions have to be made. Therefore, it is crucial that the Welsh Government should lay a sensible budget. We on this side of the Chamber believe that the Welsh Government should concentrate taxpayers’ money on health, education and the economy. We need to ensure that every £1 is spent effectively and achieves real outcomes for the people of Wales. That is the challenge for the Government. Unfortunately, this budget does not meet the needs of the people of Wales, therefore it will come as no surprise that the Welsh Conservatives will oppose this budget as it stands.

I am extremely disappointed that the Welsh Liberal Democrats have decided to support the Government’s budget—which includes supporting the Welsh Government’s NHS cuts. The budget will rip hundreds of millions of pounds out of our health service, at a time when waiting-time targets are already being missed and vacancies are not being filled. In 2012-13 alone, £75 million will be cut from the NHS in real terms. Based on the 2010 average starting salary, that would pay for over 3,500 registered nurses. Based on average costs of approximately £8,000, that would pay for over 9,000 coronary bypass operations. Based on the lower cost estimate of £4,000, that would pay for over 18,000 cycles of IVF. It is very sad indeed that, while their Westminster colleagues protect the health budget in England, the Welsh Liberal Democrats have chosen not to prioritise the NHS in Wales.

Yr wyf yn hynod o siomedig bod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi penderfynu cefnogi cyllideb y Llywodraeth—sy’n cynnwys cefnogi toriadau Llywodraeth Cymru i’r GIG. Bydd y gyllideb yn rhwygo cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd allan o’n gwasanaeth iechyd ar adeg pan mae targedau amseroedd aros eisoes yn cael eu colli ac mae swyddi gwag heb eu llenwi. Yn 2012-13 yn unig, bydd £75 miliwn yn cael eu torri o’r GIG mewn termau real. Yn seiliedig ar y cyflog cychwynnol cyfartal yn 2010, byddai hynny’n talu am dros 3,500 o nyrsys cofrestredig. Yn seiliedig ar gostau cyfartal tua £8,000, byddai hynny’n talu am dros 9,000 o lawdriniaethau dargyfeirio coronaidd. Yn seiliedig ar yr amcangyfrif cost is o £4,000, byddai hynny’n talu am dros 18,000 o gylchoedd o driniaeth IVF. Mae’n drist iawn yn wir, tra bod eu cydweithwyr yn San Steffan yn amddiffyn y gyllideb iechyd yn Lloegr, mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi dewis peidio â blaenoriaethu’r GIG yng Nghymru.

It is also interesting that the Government continues to be in denial over the real cuts to the health service. In cash terms, the health service budget is being increased, but, in real terms, the budget is being cut by 6.6 per cent over the next three years. Clearly, the Government believes that sufficient funding is being made available. The First Minister said on 30 November 2010:

Mae’n ddiddorol hefyd fod y Llywodraeth yn dal yn ei thwyllo’i hun o ran y toriadau gwirioneddol i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mewn termau arian parod, cynyddir cyllideb y gwasanaeth iechyd, ond, mewn termau real, torrir y gyllideb gan 6.6 y cant dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Yn amlwg, mae’r Llywodraeth yn credu bod digon o arian ar gael. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog ar 30 Tachwedd 2010:

‘The point is that we have ensured that there is enough money available for the health service over the next three years’.

‘Y pwynt yw ein bod wedi sicrhau bod digon o arian ar gael ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd dros y dair blynedd nesaf.’

However, a few months later an additional £65 million was made available to deal with soaring waiting lists. Clearly, not enough money is being made available. Wales will now be the only part of the United Kingdom not to see a real-terms increase for the health service.

Fodd bynnag, ychydig o fisoedd yn hwyrach, yr oedd £65 miliwn ar gael i ddelio â rhestrau aros cynyddol. Yn amlwg, nid oes digon o arian ar gael. Cymru fydd yr unig ran o’r Deyrnas Unedig heb gynnydd mewn termau real i’r gwasanaeth iechyd.

The insufficient funding of the health service has been acknowledged by committees and by backbench Members of the Government’s own party. In a written statement on the final budget last week, the Minister for Finance said:

Mae ariannu annigonol y gwasanaeth iechyd wedi ei gydnabod gan bwyllgorau ac Aelodau meinciau cefn plaid y Llywodraeth ei hun. Mewn datganiad ysgrifenedig ar y gyllideb derfynol wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog Cyllid:

‘We have considered the evidence and feedback from Assembly Committees as well as partners in local government, business, trade unions and the Third Sector.’

Yr ydym wedi ystyried y dystiolaeth a’r adborth gan bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad yn ogystal â phartneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol, busnes, undebau llafur a’r trydydd sector.

Clearly, she has not taken any notice of the Chair of the Assembly’s Health and Social Care Committee, the Member for Cardiff West, who has, in a letter to the Finance Committee, expressed concerns about whether funding allocations for the health service will be sufficient to address the challenges that it faces. She has also ignored the Finance Committee’s recommendations, which state that

Yn amlwg, nid yw hi wedi cymryd unrhyw sylw o Gadeirydd Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol y Cynulliad, yr Aelod dros Orllewin Caerdydd, sydd, mewn llythyr at y Pwyllgor Cyllid, wedi mynegi pryderon o ran a fydd dyraniadau arian ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd yn ddigonol i fynd i’r afael â’r heriau y mae’n eu hwynebu. Mae hi hefyd wedi anwybyddu argymhellion y Pwyllgor Cyllid, sy’n datgan

‘we share the Health and Social Care Committee‘s serious concerns about whether the overall level and individual allocations of funding will be sufficient to address the funding difficulties which LHBs have already identified in the current year and to deliver the level of savings required by their funding allocation.’

‘rhannwn bryderon difrifol y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol ynghylch a fydd lefel gyffredinol yr arian a‘r dyraniadau unigol yn ddigonol i fynd i’r afael â’r trafferthion ariannol y mae’r Byrddau eisoes wedi‘u nodi yn y flwyddyn bresennol ac i wneud yr arbedion y mae angen iddynt eu gwneud ar sail eu dyraniad ariannol.’

The difficulties facing LHBs were confirmed last week. Figures obtained by the BBC showed that only one LHB in Wales will break even by the end of March. It is clear that the Government has no contingency plans in its final budget to deal with those very worrying pressures.

Cadarnhawyd yr anawsterau sy’n wynebu byrddau iechyd lleol yr wythnos diwethaf. Dangosodd ffigurau a gafodd y BBC y bydd dim ond un BILl yng Nghymru yn mantoli’r gyllideb erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth. Mae’n amlwg nad oes gan y Llywodraeth unrhyw gynlluniau wrth gefn yn ei chyllideb derfynol i ddelio â’r pwysau hynny sy’n peri pryder mawr.

As I explained a few weeks ago, one of the Welsh Government’s flagship health policies is also in disarray. It is clear that the policy on extending GPs’ opening hours is in turmoil. The Minister for Finance believes that the First Minister and the Minister for health are singing from the same hymn sheet on this. However, that is simply not the case. The First Minister has said that there will be no cost to extending GPs’ opening hours, but the Minister for health has said that detailed costs are being developed. It is worrying that the Minister for Finance holds the Welsh Government’s purse strings, yet has no idea whether or not the Welsh Government will need to spend money on her party’s flagship policy. This saga is something straight out of Yes Minister.

Fel yr esboniais ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, mae un o bolisïau iechyd blaenllaw Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd mewn anhrefn. Mae’n amlwg bod y polisi ar ymestyn oriau agor meddygon teulu mewn helbul. Cred y Gweinidog Cyllid fod y Prif Weinidog a’r Gweinidog Iechyd yn canu’n unsain. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n wir. Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud na fydd cost i ymestyn oriau agor meddygon teulu, ond mae’r Gweinidog Iechyd wedi dweud bod costau manwl yn cael eu datblygu. Mae’n destun pryder bod y Gweinidog Cyllid yn dal llinynnau pwrs Llywodraeth Cymru, ac eto nid oes unrhyw syniad ganddi os bydd angen i’r Llywodraeth wario arian ar bolisi blaenllaw ei phlaid. Mae’r saga hon yn rhywbeth allan o Yes Minister.

Minister, you have told us that this budget is a budget for growth and jobs. However, the final budget provides no extra help on business rates, which would be one direct way of supporting small businesses to grow. Unfortunately, Wales is in the bottom three in the UK league table on business birth rates. We need to support small businesses to develop now, and help with business rates is one important step to support business growth in Wales. In relation to capital funding, I hope that the Minister will welcome the Chancellor’s autumn statement last week.

Weinidog, yr ydych wedi dweud wrthym fod y gyllideb hon yn gyllideb ar gyfer twf a swyddi. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r gyllideb derfynol yn darparu unrhyw gymorth ychwanegol ar ardrethi busnes, a fyddai’n un ffordd uniongyrchol o gefnogi busnesau bach i dyfu. Yn anffodus, mae Cymru ymhlith y tri isaf yn nhabl cynghrair y DU ar gyfraddau geni busnesau. Mae angen inni gefnogi busnesau bach i ddatblygu ymhellach, ac mae helpu gydag ardrethi busnes yn un cam pwysig i gefnogi twf busnesau yng Nghymru. Mewn perthynas â chyllid cyfalaf, gobeithiaf y bydd y Gweinidog yn croesawu datganiad yr hydref y Canghellor yr wythnos diwethaf.

2.45 p.m.

The Welsh Government will, of course, now receive a capital consequential of £216 million over the next three years as a result of that statement, and the people of Wales will now expect the Welsh Government to get on with the job and start taking responsibility for its spending. Clearly, the Welsh Ministers have levers at their disposal and now have additional funding to invest in our nation’s infrastructure and to drive economic growth in Wales.

Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth gwrs, yn awr yn derbyn £216 miliwn o gyllid canlyniadol cyfalaf dros y tair blynedd nesaf o ganlyniad i’r datganiad hwnnw, a bydd pobl Cymru yn disgwyl i Lywodraeth Cymru fwrw ymlaen â’r gwaith a dechrau cymryd cyfrifoldeb am ei gwariant. Yn amlwg, mae ysgogiadau gan Weinidogion Cymru i’w defnyddio ac mae ganddynt yn awr arian ychwanegol i fuddsoddi yn seilwaith ein cenedl ac i hybu twf economaidd yng Nghymru.  

On education, the final budget states that pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds will receive an additional £20 million this year and an indicative figure of £20 million has been allocated until 2015 through a pupil deprivation grant. However, it is not clear whether this is an actual pupil premium or not. The Lib Dems, of course, say that it is and call it that, while the Government calls it a pupil deprivation grant. If it is a pupil premium, the Welsh Government has committed to a policy that it clearly opposed, because, earlier this year, the Minister for education said,

O ran addysg, dywed y gyllideb derfynol y bydd disgyblion o gefndiroedd difreintiedig yn derbyn £20 miliwn yn ychwanegol eleni a dyrannwyd ffigur dangosol o £20 miliwn hyd nes 2015 drwy grant amddifadedd disgyblion. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’n glir ai premiwm disgybl go iawn yw hwn ai peidio. Dywed y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, wrth gwrs, mai dyna ydyw a dyna maent yn ei alw, tra bod y Llywodraeth yn ei alw yn grant amddifadedd disgyblion. Os mai premiwm disgybl ydyw, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i bolisi y gwnaeth ei wrthwynebu’n glir, achos, yn gynharach eleni, dywedodd y Gweinidog addysg,

‘A pupil premium allocated by central diktat is not therefore our favoured method of delegation.’

Nid premiwm disgybl sydd wedi ei ddyrannu yn ôl dictad canolog yw’r ffordd rydym yn ei ffafrio i ddyrannu. 

What is also clear is that the Liberal Democrats have sold out very cheaply on this policy, because in discussions with us during the budget process, they made it clear that a policy such as this would cost in the region of £40 million in the first year. Indeed, the Welsh Liberal Democrat manifesto budgets for an increasing cost to the pupil premium policy of £33.6 million in year one, £84.1 million in year two, £135 million in year three and £185 million in year four. The Welsh Government has, therefore, committed itself to deliver a policy that it clearly opposed, but with only a fraction of the funding. The Minister for education can laugh as much as he likes; that is the reality.

Mae hefyd yn amlwg bod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi cael eu prynu yn llawer rhy rhad ar y polisi hwn, achos mewn trafodaethau gyda ni yn ystod y broses o lunio’r gyllideb, fe’i gwnaethant yn amlwg y byddai polisi fel hyn yn costio tua £40 miliwn yn y flwyddyn gyntaf. Yn wir, mae maniffesto Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cyllidebu am gost gynyddol o £33.6 miliwn i’r polisi premiwm disgybl yn y flwyddyn gyntaf, £84.1 miliwn yn yr ail flwyddyn, £135 miliwn yn y drydedd flwyddyn a £185 miliwn yn y bedwaredd flwyddyn. Felly, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i gyflawni polisi y gwnaeth ei wrthwynebu’n glir, ond dim ond gyda mymryn o’r arian. Caiff y Gweinidog addysg chwerthin faint a fynno; dyna’r gwirionedd.

Minister, during the debate on the draft budget a few weeks ago, you said,

Weinidog, yn ystod y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, dywedoch,

‘We have responded to concerns, questions and evidence of need, and to difficult and different political priorities.’

Yr ydym wedi ymateb i bryderon, cwestiynau a thystiolaeth o angen, ac i flaenoriaethau gwleidyddol anodd a gwahanol.

Minister, I cannot accept that view. Not a single additional penny has been given to the NHS in this final budget. In its current form, we believe that this budget will not address the aspirations of the people of Wales or the needs of communities across the country. It is simply not fit for purpose. It is clear from committee reports that Members from all political parties have huge concerns with regard to this budget, and I again urge Members to be true to your concerns, to do the right thing and vote against this budget. Let us prioritise and draw up a budget that will meet the needs of the people of Wales.

Weinidog, ni allaf dderbyn y safbwynt hwnnw. Ni roddwyd ceiniog ychwanegol i’r GIG yn y gyllideb derfynol hon. Fel ag y mae, ni chredwn y bydd y gyllideb hon yn ymdrin â dyheadau pobl Cymru nag anghenion cymunedau ar draws y wlad. Yn syml, nid yw’n addas at y diben. Mae’n amlwg o adroddiadau pwyllgor fod pryderon dwys gan Aelodau o bob plaid wleidyddol am y gyllideb hon, ac yr wyf eto yn annog Aelodau i fod yn driw i’w pryderon, i wneud y peth iawn a phleidleisio yn erbyn y gyllideb hon. Gadewch i ni flaenoriaethu a llunio cyllideb a fydd yn diwallu anghenion pobl Cymru.  

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Yr wyf i hefyd yn cydnabod bod y gyllideb hon yn cael ei chynllunio mewn cyfnod argyfyngus o safbwynt yr economi ac o safbwynt arian cyhoeddus. Yr oeddem i gyd yn ymwybodol, pan luniwyd y gyllideb, fod y Llywodraeth yn wynebu toriad o £1.9 biliwn ar draws y cyfnod gwariant tan 2014, sef gostyngiad o 11.3 y cant mewn termau real yn ei chyllideb. Mae hynny’n golygu bod toriadau enfawr yn gorfod digwydd nid yn unig yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ond yn y gwasanaeth addysg a phob gwasanaeth arall mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei ddarparu. Yr hyn sydd yn bwysig, yng nghyd-destun y sefyllfa anodd honno, a yw’r Llywodraeth wedi blaenoriaethu ei gwariant yn iawn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: I also recognise the fact that this budget is being planned in a critical period for the economy and for public spending. We were all aware, when the budget was drafted, that the Government was facing a cut of £1.9 billion across the period of expenditure until 2014, which is a reduction of 11.3 per cent in real terms in its budget. That means that there are to be huge cuts not only in the health service, but in education and every other service delivered by the Government. What is important is that in the context of that difficult situation is whether the Government has prioritised its expenditure correctly.

Un o’r pethau yr wyf eisiau canolbwyntio arnynt, cyn sôn am yr hyn yr oedd Plaid Cymru wedi gofyn amdano yn y gyllideb—sef stimwlws economaidd sylweddol yn wyneb y problemau hyn—yw un o’r pethau y cyfeiriodd Paul Davies atynt, sef problemau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru wedi dweud bod y prawf sy’n wynebu’r Llywodraeth ar wariant yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn enfawr, gan fod y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru yn derbyn y setliad mwyaf anodd yn y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Mae’n dweud y bydd bwlch cyllido yn y cyd-destun hwn o rhwng £440 miliwn a £570 miliwn erbyn 2013-14. Wrth gwrs, nid ydym yn cytuno â’r Blaid Geidwadol bod rhaid cynnal y gwariant mewn termau real oherwydd byddai hynny yn golygu toriadau enfawr—llawer iawn mwy—yn y gwasanaeth addysg, llywodraeth leol ac yn y blaen. Er mai eu blaenoriaeth nhw oedd y gwasanaeth iechyd—

One of the things that I want to concentrate on, before discussing what Plaid Cymru had asked for in the budget—namely a significant economic stimulus in the face of the these problems—is one of the things to which Paul Davies referred, that is, problems in the health service. The Wales Audit Office has said that the challenge facing the Government in terms of expenditure in the health service is huge, because the health service in Wales has received the most difficult settlement in the United Kingdom, and states that there will be a funding gap in this context of between £440 million and £570 million by 2013-14. Of course, we do not agree with the Conservative Party that expenditure in real terms needs to be maintained because that would mean huge cuts—far greater cuts—in education, local government and so on. Although their priority was the health service—

Nick Ramsay: Thank you for giving way. On the basis of what you have just said, can you be clear that that means that you believe in the real terms cuts to the Welsh NHS that are happening under this Government?

Nick Ramsay: Diolch am dderbyn ymyriad. Ar sail yr hyn yr ydych newydd ddweud, a allwch chi fod yn glir bod hynny’n golygu eich bod yn credu yn y toriadau termau real i’r GIG yng Nghymru sy’n digwydd o dan y Llywodraeth hon?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: It is pretty obvious, is it not? The figures speak for themselves. Although there is a small cash increase in the health budget for the period, we have to accept that, in real terms, there is a cut. That cut has been identified by the Wales Audit Office, and I think that everybody agrees that that is the case. The problem for your party is that, had the Government protected the health service in real terms, that would have meant cuts in the education budget far in excess of what we are facing, as well as in local authorities—there would be severe cuts in all the areas that they service. In a sense, it is a case of priorities. The Conservatives decided what their priorities were, and other parties have other priorities. It is important to place that on the record. The issue is that, whichever way you look at it, the health service is facing pressures. Both the Health and Social Care Committee and the Finance Committee had concerns about whether or not it was adequate. We welcomed the assurance that the Minister gave that she will return to the Finance Committee halfway through the next financial year and explain how the health service is managing within the financial envelope.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Mae’n eithaf amlwg, onid yw? Mae’r ffigurau yn siarad drostynt eu hunain. Er bod cynnydd bach mewn arian parod yn y gyllideb iechyd ar gyfer y cyfnod hwn, mae’n rhaid i ni dderbyn bod toriad mewn termau real. Cafodd y toriad hwnnw ei nodi gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, a chredaf fod pawb yn derbyn mai dyna yw’r achos. Y broblem i’ch plaid yw, pe bai’r Llywodraeth wedi diogelu’r gwasanaeth iechyd mewn termau real, byddai hynny wedi golygu toriadau llawer mwy yn y gyllideb addysg na’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wynebu, yn ogystal ag mewn awdurdodau lleol—byddai toriadau llym ym mhob ardal maent yn gwasanaethu ynddynt. Mewn ffordd, mater o flaenoriaethau ydyw. Penderfynodd y Ceidwadwyr beth oedd eu blaenoriaethau, ac mae blaenoriaethau eraill gan bleidiau eraill. Y broblem yw, pa bynnag ffordd yr edrychwch arni, mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn wynebu pwysau. Roedd pryderon gan y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol a’r Pwyllgor Cyllid am pa un a oedd yn ddigonol. Gwnaethom groesawu’r sicrwydd a roddodd y Gweinidog y byddai’n dychwelyd i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid hanner ffordd drwy’r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf i egluro sut mae’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn ymdopi efo’r cyllideb sydd ganddo.  

Yr hyn yr ydym yn gwybod, fel mae Paul Davies eisoes wedi cyfeirio ato, yw bod pob un o’r byrddau iechyd, ar wahân i un, yn wynebu gorwario eleni. Felly, os ydynt yn wynebu gorwario eleni ac y bydd llai o arian y flwyddyn nesaf eto, sut yr ydym i wybod y byddant yn gallu byw o fewn yr amlen ariannol y maent wedi ei chael? Mae’n rhaid inni ddweud, felly, ein bod yn rhannu pryderon y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol a’r Pwyllgor Cyllid ynglŷn â’r arian sydd wedi cael ei neilltuo i’r gwasanaeth iechyd.

What we do know, as Paul Davies has already mentioned, is that each health board, with one exception, is facing an overspend this year. Therefore, if they are facing an overspent this year and there will be less money available again next year, how are we to know that they will be able to live within their financial means? We have to say, therefore, that we share the concerns of the Health and Social Care Committee and the Finance Committee about the funding allocated to the health service.

Wrth gwrs, y cwestiwn mawr yr oeddem ni ym Mhlaid Cymru yn ei ofyn oedd sut y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn ymateb i’r argyfwng economaidd sy’n wynebu Cymru. Yr ydym yn edrych ar hynny nid yn unig yng nghyd-destun yr hyn sy’n digwydd yng ngwledydd Prydain, ond yr hyn sy’n digwydd ar draws y byd. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod bod uwchgynhadledd yn cael ei chynnal ddiwedd yr wythnos hon sy’n mynd i drio mynd i’r afael â’r problemau mawr sy’n wynebu parth yr ewro. Yr ydym hyd yn oed erbyn hyn yn wynebu sefyllfa lle gallai Ffrainc a’r Almaen golli eu statws credyd AAA. Ni fuaswn erioed wedi credu byddai hynny’n gallu digwydd yn ein hoes ni, ond dyna ni, mae hynny’n bosibl. Yr oedd hyd yn oed y Gweinidog Cyllid yn cydnabod y gallem fod mewn dirwasgiad yn chwarter cyntaf y flwyddyn nesaf. Yr hyn y mae hynny’n ei olygu felly yw, os nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn fodlon rhoi blaenoriaeth i’r economi, beth mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn mynd i’w wneud? Yn anffodus, nid oeddem yn teimlo bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi ymateb yn ddigonol i’r argyfwng economaidd sy’n wynebu pobl Cymru.

Of course, the big question that we in Plaid Cymru were asking on was how this Government is responding to the economic crisis facing Wales. We are looking at that not only in the context of what is happening in the UK, but what is happening on a global level. We all know that a summit is being held at the end of this week that will endeavour to deal with the huge problems facing the eurozone. We are now even facing a situation where France and Germany could lose their AAA credit rating. I would never have believed that that would be possible in our lifetimes, but it is now a real possibility. Even the Minister for Finance recognised that we could be in recession in the first quarter of next year. What that means is that if the Government in Westminster is not willing to prioritise the economy, what is the Government here going to do? Unfortunately, we did not feel that the Government here had responded adequately to the economic crisis facing the people of Wales.

Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog Cyllid at yr arian sydd wedi ei neilltuo mewn nifer o wahanol feysydd, ond wrth gwrs mae angen bod yn uchelgeisiol pan mae Llywodraeth yn wynebu argyfwng o’r fath. Edrychwch, er enghraifft, ar yr hyn mae’r Llywodraeth wedi ei gyhoeddi; hynny yw, cynllun cyfalaf llynedd o £104 miliwn ac y mae wedi cytuno bod £90 miliwn arall ar gael o’r arian canolog y mae wedi ei gadw yn ôl. Dyna i chi £194 miliwn i’w wario ar isadeiledd. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n ddigon uchelgeisiol. Os wrandawn ar Gerry Holtham, er enghraifft, dywedodd ym mis Mehefin eleni nad edrych am ryw £100 miliwn fan hyn a fan acw sydd eisiau ei wneud, ond bod yn uchelgeisiol. Yr oedd yn gofyn pam yr oedd pobl Cymru drwy’r amser yn gorfod dibynnu ar yr arian bach hwnnw yn hytrach na’r £2.6 biliwn yr oedd e’n credu dylai’r Llywodraeth fod yn gallu ei wario.

The Minister for Finance did refer to the funding allocated in a number of different areas, but of course there is a need to be ambitious when Government is facing a crisis such as this. Look, for example, at what the Government has announced; that is, last year’s capital programme of £104 million and it has agreed that there should be another £90 million made available from its central reserves. So, that is £194 million being spent on infrastructure. However, that is not ambitious enough. If we listen to Gerry Holtham, for example, he said in June of this year that we should not be looking at £100 million here and £100 million there, but that we should be ambitious. He was asking why the people of Wales had to depend on those small sums of money rather than the £2.6 billion that he believed the Government should be able to spend.

Yr ydym wedi dweud, wrth gwrs, o fewn cynllun tebyg i gynllun Adeiladu dros Gymru, bod modd gwneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, o le y daw’r syniadau hyn gan y Llywodraeth? A yw’r Llywodraeth o ddifrif yn credu bod modd codi’r math hwnnw o arian, oherwydd, hyd y gwn i, nid oes unrhyw beth pellach gan y Gweinidog i’w adrodd? Oni bai ein bod yn uchelgeisiol, yna, yn sicr, bydd swyddi’n cael eu colli ymhob sector yng Nghymru. Bydd Alun Ffred Jones, os caiff gyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon, yn gallu cyfeirio’n fwy penodol at y cynllun gwarchod swyddi busnesau bach yr ydym hefyd wedi’i argymell yn ein trafodaethau gyda’r Llywodraeth.

We have said, of course, that, in a scheme similar to the Build for Wales programme, that is possible. However, from where are these ideas emerging from Government? Does the Government seriously believe that it is possible to raise that kind of money, because, as far as I know, the Minister has nothing further to report? Unless we are ambitious in this regard, jobs will certainly be lost in all sectors in Wales. Alun Ffred Jones, if he has an opportunity to contribute to this debate, will make more specific reference to the small business job protection scheme that we recommended in our discussions with Government.

Derbyniwn fod y Llywodraeth wedi cytuno i barhau â’r rhaglen y mae’r Trysorlys yn talu amdano hyd at ddiwedd fis Mawrth 2013, a da iawn am hynny. Wrth gwrs, mae hynny’n helpu busnesau bach sydd â gwerth ardrethol o hyd at £12,000. Teimlwn y dylid ychwanegu at hynny. Byddai’n cynllun ni wedi helpu 80 y cant o fusnesau yng Nghymru—credaf y byddai wedi rhoi arian sylweddol iddynt ac wedi arbed swyddi.

We accept that the Government has agreed to continue with the programme that the Treasury is paying for up until the end of March 2013, and we are very pleased about that. Of course, that helps small businesses with a rateable value of up to £12,000. We believe that that value should be increased. Our scheme would have helped 80 per cent of businesses in Wales—I believe it would have provided significant funds for them and would have safeguarded jobs.

Credwn fod angen cynnydd yng nghyllideb y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth, a fyddai’n golygu y gallem helpu’r parthau menter a’r sector gweithgynhyrchu. Mae’r sectorau twf hyn, wrth gwrs, yn hanfodol i’n diwydiant a’n diwylliant. Credwn hefyd fod angen helpu pobl ifanc i gael gwaith, drwy ychwanegu at y rhaglen recriwtiaid newydd. Teimlwn fod angen rhoi llawer iawn mwy o gymorth i gyflogwyr sy’n cyflogi pobl ifanc, a byddai’r rhaglen hwnnw o help mawr.

We believe that we need to increase the budget of the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science, which would mean that we could help the enterprise zones and the manufacturing sector. These growth sectors are, of course, crucial for our industries and our culture. We also believe that we need to assist young people to find work, by adding to the young recruits programme. We feel that a lot more assistance needs to be provided to employers who employ young people, and that programme would be of great assistance.

Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth, felly, wedi bod yn hynod o siomedig. Ni chredaf fod y Llywodraeth wedi deall maint yr argyfwng sy’n ein hwynebu. Gobeithiwn, felly, y bydd cyfle i symud hyn yn ei flaen wrth inni gynnal trafodaethau yn y misoedd a’r blynyddoedd sydd i ddod. Blaenoriaeth Plaid Cymru yn ein trafodaethau â’r Llywodraeth oedd sicrhau stimwlws economaidd sylweddol iawn i bobl Cymru. Gan nad yw’r hyn a gynigir yn cyflawni’r gofyniad hwnnw, bydd Plaid Cymru yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y gyllideb heddiw.

Therefore, the Government’s response has been extremely disappointing. I do not think that the Government has understood the scale of the crisis facing us. We hope, therefore, that there will be an opportunity to progress this as we hold negotiations in the ensuing months and years. The priority for Plaid Cymru in our negotiations with Government was to ensure an economic stimulus that would be significant for the people of Wales. Therefore, given that what is proposed does not fulfil that requirement, Plaid Cymru will vote against this budget today.

Peter Black: The Welsh Liberal Democrats will be supporting this budget today and we will be casting our votes accordingly. There are a number of reasons for doing that. The first is that we are a responsible party that recognises that it would be inconceivable for the Welsh public sector not to have some certainty as to its budgets for the next year and to be able to plan for it. We felt that any further uncertainty in terms of those budgets would be counter-productive and would undermine the need to invest in and deliver those services over the coming year.

Peter Black: Bydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cefnogi’r gyllideb hon heddiw a byddwn yn pleidleisio yn unol â hynny. Mae sawl rheswm dros wneud hynny. Y cyntaf yw ein bod yn blaid gyfrifol sy’n cydnabod y byddai’n amhosibl meddwl na fyddai gan y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ryw fath o sicrwydd am ei gyllidebau ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf a gallu cynllunio ar ei chyfer. Yr oeddem yn teimlo na fyddai mwy o ansicrwydd am y cyllidebau hynny yn fuddiol, ac y byddai yn tanseilio’r angen i fuddsoddi yn y gwasanaethau hynny a’u darparu yn y flwyddyn i ddod.

Secondly, we recognise the economic context within which the Government must work and that difficult decisions have had to be made. As such, we support the general thrust of the budget to try to protect key services across the board, rather than seeking to ring-fence one particular service, which the Conservatives outlined would have been their approach. Having said that, we see our role over the next 12 months as one of scrutinising how Ministers allocate and spend the amounts that they have been given in this budget. We remain an opposition party with a duty to continue to hold the Government to account.

Yn ail, yr ydym yn sylweddoli beth yw’r cyd-destun economaidd mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth weithio ynddo ac y bu’n rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau anodd. Yr ydym felly yn cefnogi amcan cyffredinol y gyllideb i geisio diogelu gwasanaethau allweddol yn gyffredinol, yn hytrach na cheisio neilltuo un gwasanaeth penodol, sef y ffordd y dywedodd y Ceidwadwyr y byddent wedi mynd ati. Wedi dweud hynny, yr ydym yn ystyried mai ein rôl ni dros y 12 mis nesaf yw craffu ar sut mae Gweinidogion yn dyrannu a gwario’r symiau a gawsant yn y gyllideb hon. Yr ydym yn parhau i fod yn wrthblaid gyda dyletswydd i ddal y Llywodraeth i gyfrif.

This budget delivers the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ main manifesto pledge. We have secured an additional £20 million investment in schools, in a year when the overall budget has fallen by £430 million. That is a total fund of £32 million being paid directly to schools at a rate of £450 for each pupil on free school meals in May next year, which is repeated in the budget for two subsequent years. The costing in our manifesto—and Paul Davies referred to this—for year one of the scheme was £33 million. We are therefore pleased that what is being achieved is very close to that costing in terms of the amount of money going to schools as part of this pupil deprivation grant.

Mae’r gyllideb hon yn gwireddu prif addewid maniffesto Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru. Yr ydym wedi sicrhau buddsoddiad o £20 miliwn ychwanegol mewn ysgolion, mewn blwyddyn lle mae’r gyllideb gyffredinol £430 miliwn yn llai. Dyna gyfanswm o £32 miliwn sy’n cael ei dalu’n uniongyrchol i ysgolion ar gyfradd o £450 fesul disgybl sy’n cael prydau ysgol am ddim ym mis Mai y flwyddyn nesaf, sy’n cael ei ailadrodd yn y gyllideb am y ddwy flynedd ganlynol. Y gost yn ein maniffesto—soniodd Paul Davies am hyn—oedd £33 miliwn ar gyfer blwyddyn gyntaf y cynllun. Tr ydym yn falch felly bod yr hyn sy’n cael ei gyflawni yn agos iawn at y gost honno o ran y swm o arian sy’n mynd i ysgolion fel rhan o’r grant amddifadedd disgyblion.

Therefore, the rumblings here of ‘selling out cheaply’ need to be reconsidered, particularly given that, in 2006, when Plaid Cymru settled on the budget in similar circumstances, it settled for £11 million in a year when the budget increased by £590 million. The contrast there is stark and shows that this is not just a good deal for the Welsh Liberal Democrats, but for pupils, particularly poorer pupils, around Wales, for education and for the Welsh public sector. [Interruption.]—I have already said that, Rhodri.

Felly, mae angen ailystyried y sisial yma am ‘werthu am bris rhy rad’, yn enwedig o ystyried yn 2006, pan gytunodd Plaid Cymru ar y gyllideb mewn amgylchiadau tebyg, fe gytunodd ar £11 miliwn mewn blwyddyn lle’r oedd cynnydd o £590 miliwn yn y gyllideb. Mae’r cyferbyniad o ran hynny yn un amlwg ac mae’n dangos bod hon yn fargen dda nid yn unig i Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru, ond hefyd i ddisgyblion, yn enwedig disgyblion tlotach, o gwmpas Cymru, i addysg ac i’r sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. [Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf wedi dweud hynny’n barod, Rhodri.

3.00 p.m.

Peter Black: The Welsh Liberal Democrats—

Peter Black: Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: It is a good deal for the Lib Dems.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Mae’n fargen dda i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol.

Peter Black: I have said that, Rhodri. [Laughter.]

Peter Black: Yr wyf wedi dweud hynny, Rhodri. [Chwerthin.]

The Welsh Liberal Democrats have also been able to influence the way in which the £38.9 million Barnett consequential from the UK Government’s freezing of council tax is spent. I am pleased that this is focused on economic renewal and investment, in particular the nearly £5 million for the young recruits programme, which Ieuan Wyn Jones referred to earlier, and the £3 million for Skills Growth Wales. The sum of £9.26 million for schools is allocated across Wales, not according to a bidding process, but on a formula basis, so that every part of Wales will benefit from that money. There is also £18 million for housing, which, if utilised correctly, could generate additional money from other sectors of the economy and boost that amount of money.

Mae Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru hefyd wedi gallu dylanwadu ar y ffordd mae’r £38.9 miliwn o gyllid canlyniadol Barnett yn dilyn rhewi’r dreth gyngor gan Lywodraeth y DU yn cael ei wario. Yr wyf yn falch bod hyn yn canolbwyntio ar adnewyddu’r economi a buddsoddiad, yn enwedig y bron i £5 miliwn ar gyfer y rhaglen recriwtiaid newydd, y soniodd Ieuan Wyn Jones amdani yn gynharach, a’r £3 miliwn ar gyfer Twf Sgiliau Cymru. Caiff y swm o £9.26 miliwn ar gyfer ysgolion ei dyrannu ar draws Cymru, nid yn ôl proses fidio, ond ar sail fformiwla, fel bod pob rhan o Gymru yn elwa o’r arian hwnnw. Mae £18 miliwn hefyd ar gyfer tai, ac os caiff ei ddefnyddio’n gywir fe allai ddod ag arian ychwanegol o sectorau eraill o’r economi a chynyddu’r swm o arian hwnnw. 

I note that the Minister has announced an extension of the business rates relief scheme, in line with the UK Government, helping businesses across Wales with one of their core costs. We will also be working with the Welsh Government to ensure that the £216 million allocation from the autumn statement, and any revenue consequential, will also focus on similar areas. We believe that that is a good deal for business in Wales in terms of the additional money for business rates relief, and we hope that we will be able to add to that as part of further negotiations around those moneys.

Nodaf fod y Gweinidog wedi cyhoeddi y bydd y cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yn cael ei ymestyn, fel ag y gwnaeth Llywodraeth y DU, gan helpu busnesau ar draws Cymru gydag un o’u costau craidd. Byddwn hefyd yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod y dyraniad £216 miliwn o ddatganiad yr hydref, ac unrhyw gyllid canlyniadol refeniw, yn canolbwyntio ar feysydd tebyg. Credwn fod hon yn fargen dda i fusnes yng Nghymru o ran yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer rhyddhad ardrethi busnes, a gobeithio y byddwn yn gallu ychwanegu at hynny fel rhan o negodiadau pellach am yr arian hwnnw.

As a result of the deal we have made with the Welsh Government, this budget concentrates much more on investment to boost the economy and helping the poorest pupils fulfil their potential. That very much reflects the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ priorities as well, and it is the main reason why we are happy to support the budget today. Paul Davies, in response to this budget, said that he is disappointed at our support for it. Does he really want to reject the more than £600,000 that will go to schools in his constituency as a result of the deal that has been struck here? The Conservatives’ plan to ring-fence the NHS budget would mean huge cuts elsewhere. Their manifesto said that it would mean a 20 per cent cut to the education budget. We have increased investment in education, ensuring not only that the poorest pupils will benefit from this budget, but that the funding gap between England and Wales, which currently stands at £604 per pupil, will be further eroded as a result of this additional investment. Our policy in the election was clear: we would not ring-fence the NHS budget; instead we wanted the Government to tackle inefficiency and look at smarter ways of working, such as community pharmacies. I believe and hope that the Minister is working in that way, but we will certainly continue to scrutinise her on that. We accept that there have been real-term cuts, but the money that is currently in the NHS can be better spent and can deliver better outcomes for people. We believe that the way forward at this stage is to ensure that that happens.

O ganlyniad i’r fargen y gwnaethom ei tharo gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, mae’r gyllideb hon yn canolbwyntio llawer mwy ar fuddsoddi i hybu’r economi a helpu’r disgyblion tlotaf i wireddu eu potensial. Mae hynny yn adlewyrchu blaenoriaethau Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru i raddau helaeth hefyd, a dyna’r prif reswm pam yr ydym yn fodlon cefnogi’r gyllideb heddiw. Dywedodd Paul Davies yn ei ymateb i’r gyllideb ei fod yn siomedig gyda’n cefnogaeth iddi. A ydyw wir eisiau gwrthod mwy na £600,000 a fydd yn mynd i ysgolion yn ei etholaeth o ganlyniad i’r fargen a drawyd yma? Byddai cynllun y Ceidwadwyr i neilltuo cyllideb y GIG yn golygu toriadau anferth mewn mannau eraill. Byddai’n golygu 20 y cant o doriad i’r gyllideb addysg, yn ôl eu maniffesto. Yr ydym wedi cynyddu buddsoddiad mewn addysg, gan sicrhau mai nid y disgyblion tlotaf yn unig a fydd yn elwa o’r gyllideb hon, ond y bydd y bwlch ariannu rhwng Cymru a Lloegr, sy’n £604 fesul disgybl ar hyn o bryd, yn cael ei leihau ymhellach o ganlyniad i’r buddsoddiad ychwanegol hwn. Yr oedd ein polisi yn yr etholiad yn glir: ni fyddem yn neilltuo cyllideb y GIG; yn hytrach yr oeddem am i’r Llywodraeth fynd i’r afael ag aneffeithlonrwydd ac edrych ar ffyrdd fwy clyfar o weithio, fel fferyllfeydd cymunedol. Yr wyf yn credu a gobeithio bod y Gweinidog yn gweithio yn y ffordd honno, ond byddwn yn bendant yn dal ati i graffu arni yn hynny o beth. Derbyniwn y bu toriadau termau real, ond gellir gwario’r arian sydd yn y GIG ar hyn o bryd yn well ac fe all gyflawni canlyniadau gwell i bobl. Credwn mai’r ffordd ymlaen ar hyn o bryd yw sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd.

The problem for the Conservatives in this is that they were in disarray from the start on this budget. They have been flip-flopping even on the additional £38.9 million that came from Westminster. At one stage, they were demanding it be spent on the NHS, then they were asking for it to be used to freeze council tax, and then they were back to demanding it was spent on health. How can they expect to be taken seriously when they are not even sure themselves how this money should be spent?

Y broblem i’r Ceidwadwyr yn hyn o beth oedd eu bod mewn dryswch ers y cychwyn am y gyllideb hon. Maent wedi bod mewn dryswch hyd yn oed  am y £38.9 miliwn ychwanegol a ddaeth o San Steffan. Ar un adeg, yr oeddent yn galw arno i gael ei wario ar y GIG, yna yr oeddent yn gofyn iddo gael ei ddefnyddio i rewi’r dreth gyngor, ac wedyn aethant yn ôl  i alw arno i gael ei wario ar iechyd. Sut maent yn disgwyl cael eu cymryd o ddifri pan nad ydynt hyd yn oed yn siŵr eu hunain sut y dylai’r arian hwn gael ei wario? 

Andrew R.T. Davies: You know full well that the only call we have made is for that money to be used for a council tax freeze. You might well disagree with that, but that is the only call we have made in relation to the additional money that the Chancellor has sent down. You know that.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Fe wyddoch yn iawn mai’r unig alwad a wnaethom oedd i’r arian hwnnw gael ei ddefnyddio i rewi’r dreth gyngor. Efallai nad ydych yn cytuno â hynny, ond dyna’r unig alwad a wnaethom o ran yr arian ychwanegol a anfonodd y Canghellor i lawr. Fe wyddoch hynny.

Peter Black: Andrew, you may say that now, but that did not feature in your spokesperson’s speech. In fact, the whole thrust of your spokesperson’s speech was that the additional money that was available should go to the NHS. You cannot make up your mind—do you want the money to go to the NHS or do you want it to go towards freezing council tax? I do not think that is possible. What the Welsh Liberal Democrats have been able to achieve, with five Assembly Members, is to deliver our chief manifesto policy. What the Conservatives have been able to achieve, with 14 Assembly Members, is absolutely nothing. You have no influence and you are just shouting the odds because of that. I hope, Presiding Officer, that the budget in front of us today will be recognised as one that is suitable to deliver what Wales needs at this moment in time. Yes, we all want more money; yes, we want more money for the economy; and yes, we want more money for education and health, but we have to work with the money allocated as part of our block grant. With that in mind, what we have here is the best possible deal for pupils in Wales, which invests in our economy by investing in skills, education and training, and we have been able to put that additional money into apprenticeships, Skills Wales and capital investment.

Peter Black: Efallai eich bod yn dweud hynny’n awr, Andrew, ond nid oedd hynny yn araith eich llefarydd. Yn wir, prif bwynt araith eich llefarydd oedd y dylai’r arian ychwanegol a oedd ar gael fynd i’r GIG. Ni allwch wneud eich meddwl i fyny—a ydych am i’r arian fynd i’r GIG neu a ydych am iddo fynd at rewi’r dreth gyngor? Nid wyf yn credu bod hynny’n bosibl. Yr hyn y llwyddodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru i’w wneud, gyda phump Aelod Cynulliad, yw cyflwyno prif bolisi ein maniffesto. Yr hyn y llwyddodd y Ceidwadwyr i’w wneud, gydag 14 Aelod Cynulliad, yw dim byd o gwbl. Nid oes gennych unrhyw ddylanwad, a dyna pam eich bod yn gwneud gymaint o dwrw gwag. Gobeithio, Lywydd, y caiff y gyllideb sydd ger ein bron heddiw ei chydnabod fel un sy’n addas i gyflawni’r hyn sydd ei angen ar Gymru ar hyn o bryd. Ydym, yr ydym i gyd eisiau mwy o arian; ydym, yr ydym eisiau mwy o arian i’r economi; ac ydym, yr ydym eisiau mwy o arian i addysg ac iechyd, ond mae’n rhaid i ni weithio gyda’r arian a ddyrannwyd fel rhan o’n grant bloc. Gyda hynny mewn cof, yr hyn sydd gennym yma yw’r fargen orau bosibl i ddisgyblion yng Nghymru, sy’n buddsoddi yn ein heconomi drwy fuddsoddi mewn sgiliau, addysg a hyfforddiant, ac yr ydym wedi gallu rhoi’r arian ychwanegol hwnnw i mewn i brentisiaethau, Sgiliau Cymru a buddsoddiad cyfalaf.  

Lynne Neagle: This budget cannot be viewed in isolation from the wider economic context in which we find ourselves. Let us be blunt: these are truly terrifying economic times. The eurozone is in crisis; according to some, it is on the brink of collapse. At a UK level, we face an economic situation that is unrelentingly bleak. The revised forecast of the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Chancellor’s pre-budget statement surely represented the final nail in the coffin for Osborne economics and for that received Tory wisdom that you can cut your way out of a crisis, no matter the damage to the economy or to people’s income and lives. The evidence that this strategy is in tatters is all around us; whether you look at flatlining economic growth, the chronic lack of a plan to kick-start the economy, growth predictions slashed, public sector job losses upscaled, consumer confidence plummeting and millions of workers so incensed by the Government’s attacks on them that they felt moved to strike last week, many for the first time in their lives. Worst of all, we see record numbers of young people out of work; 73 per cent more young people in my constituency alone are out of work. It is nothing less than a national tragedy.

Lynne Neagle: Ni ellir ystyried y gyllideb hon ar wahân i’r cyd-destun economaidd ehangach y cawn ein hunain ynddo. Gadewch i ni fod yn blaen: mae hwn yn gyfnod gwirioneddol ddychrynllyd i’r economi. Mae ardal yr Ewro mewn argyfwng; yn ôl rhai, mae ar fin dymchwel. Ar lefel y DU, yr ydym yn wynebu sefyllfa economaidd arw tu hwnt.  Yn ddiau, yr oedd rhagolygon diwygiedig y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol a datganiad y Canghellor cyn y gyllideb yn cynrychioli’r hoelen olaf yn arch economeg Osborne a’r doethineb benthyg Torïaidd hwnnw y gallwch dorri eich hun allan o argyfwng, waeth pa niwed a wneir i’r economi nag i incwm a bywydau pobl. Mae’r dystiolaeth fod y strategaeth hon yn deilchion o’n cwmpas ymhobman; pa un a edrychwch ar dwf economaidd yn aros yn wastad, diffyg cynllun llwyr i roi cychwyn i’r economi, torri ar ragolygon twf, cynnydd yn nifer y swyddi a gollwyd yn y sector cyhoeddus, llai o lawer o hyder gan gwsmeriaid a miliynau o weithwyr mor ddig am ymosodiadau y Llywodraeth arnynt fel eu bod wedi streicio wythnos diwethaf, y tro cyntaf erioed i lawer ohonynt. Yn waethaf oll, gwelwn y nifer uchaf erioed o bobl ifanc yn ddi-waith; mae 73 y cant yn fwy o bobl ifanc yn ddi-waith dim ond yn fy etholaeth i. Nid yw’n ddim llai na thrychineb genedlaethol.

When this economic storm was brewing, we talked a lot about the need to avoid a situation like the one we saw in the 1980s, when an entire generation was left to wither on the vine by a callous generation of Tories that cared little and did even less. However, the awful truth is that we face a youth unemployment crisis that is potentially more serious than the dreadful legacy left by Mrs Thatcher’s Government.

Pan oedd y storm economaidd hon yn y gwynt, fe wnaethom sôn llawer bod angen osgoi sefyllfa debyg i’r un a welsom yn y 1980au, pan ddinistriwyd cenhedlaeth gyfan yn raddol gan genhedlaeth ddidostur o Dorïaid a oedd yn poeni fawr ddim ac a wnaeth lai byth. Fodd bynnag, y gwir ofnadwy amdani yw ein bod yn wynebu argyfwng o ran diweithdra ymysg pobl ifanc sydd o bosibl yn fwy difrifol na’r etifeddiaeth ofnadwy a adawyd gan Lywodraeth Mrs Thatcher.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas rose—

Rhodri Glyn Thomas a gododd —

Lynne Neagle: I give way to Rhodri Glyn Thomas.

Lynne Neagle: Derbyniaf ymyriad gan Rhodri Glyn Thomas.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I am grateful, Lynne. I do not disagree with anything that you have said. However, do you see anything in the budget that has been put before us this afternoon that will stimulate the economy, or that will defend and create jobs in Wales?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar, Lynne. Nid wyf yn anghytuno â dim a ddywedoch. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn gweld unrhyw beth yn y gyllideb a roddwyd ger ein bron y prynhawn yma a fydd yn ysgogi’r economi, neu a fydd yn diogelu a chreu swyddi yng Nghymru?

Lynne Neagle: There is plenty in this budget that will do those things, and I will describe them in the rest of my speech.

Lynne Neagle: Mae digon yn y gyllideb a fydd yn gwneud y pethau hynny, ac fe wnaf eu disgrifio yng ngweddill fy araith.

In serious times, saying ‘I told you so’ is not good enough. There is, therefore, a heavy burden of responsibility on this Welsh Government and the Assembly to demonstrate that there is a better way to deliver a fair budget for Wales; a budget that protects the most vulnerable in society; that shields them from the worst of the cuts that are in no way down to them; that gives young people the chance to work so cruelly robbed of them when the Future Jobs Fund was scrapped; that provides a real kick-start to the Welsh economy when nothing credible is forthcoming from Westminster; that delivers a fair deal to local government instead of making them bear the brunt of the cuts; and a budget that protects Welsh students from the trebling of tuition fees and the scrapping of the education maintenance allowance.

Mewn amseroedd difrifol, nid yw’n ddigon da dweud ‘Fe ddywedais i’. Felly, mae baich trwm ar ysgwyddau’r Llywodraeth Cymru hon a’r Cynulliad i ddangos bod ffordd well o ddarparu cyllideb deg i Gymru; cyllideb sy’n diogelu’r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed mewn cymdeithas; sy’n eu diogelu rhag y toriadau gwaethaf nad ydynt yn fai arnynt hwy mewn unrhyw ffordd; sy’n rhoi’r cyfle i bobl ifanc weithio a dynnwyd oddi arnynt mor greulon pan ddiddymwyd Cronfa Swyddi’r Dyfodol; sy’n rhoi cychwyn go iawn i economi Cymru pan fo dim byd credadwy yn dod gan San Steffan; sy’n rhoi bargen deg i lywodraeth leol yn hytrach na gwneud iddi ddioddef y gwaethaf o’r toriadau; a chyllideb sy’n diogelu myfyrwyr o Gymru rhag treblu ffioedd dysgu a diddymu’r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg. 

Of course, we will face immense challenges. We have had to prioritise and make difficult and sometimes heart-wrenching decisions. I do not pretend that this is a perfect budget; how could it be in these economic circumstances? It is true that we face massive challenges in the years ahead in areas like health and social services as demand for services increases and resources are stretched. There is no doubt that in areas like housing, where budgets are under pressure, we have long-term challenges, such as a lack of supply, overcrowding and homelessness. These problems were there before the crisis and have not gone away. They make innovations like co-operative housing schemes and empty homes initiatives a necessity rather than a choice. It is also right that we, as an institution, up our game and scrutinise with a fine-toothed comb every penny of money that this Government spends.

Wrth gwrs, yr ydym yn wynebu heriau anferth. Mae’n rhaid i ni flaenoriaethu a gwneud penderfyniadau anodd, sydd weithiau’n rhai dirdynnol. Nid wyf yn cymryd arnaf fod hon yn gyllideb berffaith; sut y gallai hi fod o dan yr amgylchiadau economaidd hyn? Mae’n wir ein bod yn wynebu heriau anferth yn y blynyddoedd i ddod mewn meysydd fel iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol wrth i’r galw am wasanaethau gynyddu ac wrth i adnoddau gael eu hymestyn. Yn ddiau, mae gennym heriau hirdymor mewn meysydd fel tai, lle mae pwysau ar gyllidebau, fel diffyg cyflenwad, gorboblogi a digartrefedd. Yr oedd y problemau hyn yno cyn yr argyfwng ac nid ydynt wedi diflannu. Maent wedi peri bod syniadau arloesol fel cynlluniau tai cydweithredol a mentrau tai gwag yn anghenraid yn hytrach na dewis. Mae hefyd yn iawn ein bod ni, fel sefydliad, yn gwella ac yn craffu gyda chrib mân ar bob ceiniog mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn ei gwario.  

In my role as a member of the Health and Social Care Committee, I have already been involved in tough questioning, for example over the ring-fencing of mental health spending and the financial accountability of health boards. I will continue to fight unrelentingly to ensure that the specialist and critical care centre that my constituents were promised in March is delivered by this Welsh Government. However, it is no good the Tories just saying that they would ring-fence health spending. Robbing Peter to pay Paul—dragging money out of classrooms and into hospital wards—is not a proper policy; it is nothing more than a typical Tory con trick.

Yn fy rôl fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, bûm eisoes yn holi cwestiynau anodd, er enghraifft, am neilltuo gwariant ar iechyd meddwl ac atebolrwydd ariannol y byrddau iechyd. Byddaf yn dal ati i frwydro’n ddi-baid i sicrhau bod y ganolfan gofal arbenigol a addawyd i fy etholwyr ym mis Mawrth yn cael ei darparu gan y Lywodraeth Cymru hon. Fodd bynnag, waeth heb i’r Torïaid â dweud y byddent yn neilltuo gwariant ar iechyd. Nid yw dwyn oddi ar un i dalu’r llall—llusgo arian o ddosbarthiadau ysgol ac i mewn i wardiau ysbyty—yn bolisi go iawn; nid yw’n ddim mwy na thwyll Torïaidd nodweddiadol.   

I welcome the fact that the Welsh Liberal Democrats have been able to join us in supporting this budget, despite the misgivings that they will naturally have as a party of opposition, unlike Plaid Cymru, which has chosen to side with the party that is, frankly, decimating Wales. The Welsh Lib Dems must recognise, as we do on this side of the Chamber, that we have made the best of an incredibly difficult situation. Given those circumstances and the hand that we have been dealt by the Tories in Westminster, I believe that this Welsh Government has made the right choices, delivered the best possible deal for Wales, and I am proud to support this budget today.

Croesawaf y ffaith bod Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru wedi gallu ymuno â ni i gefnogi’r gyllideb hon, er gwaethaf yr amheuon a fydd ganddynt yn naturiol fel gwrthblaid, nid fel Plaid Cymru, sydd wedi dewis ochri gyda’r blaid sydd, i fod yn onest, yn dinistrio Cymru. Mae’n rhaid i’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol gydnabod, fel yr ydym ni ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr, ein bod wedi gwneud y gorau o sefyllfa arbennig o anodd. O gofio am yr amgylchiadau hynny a’r setliad a gawsom gan y Torïaid yn San Steffan, credaf fod y Lywodraeth Cymru hon wedi gwneud y dewisiadau cywir, wedi cyflwyno’r fargen orau bosibl i Gymru, ac yr wyf yn falch o gefnogi’r gyllideb hon heddiw.

Mark Isherwood: Speaking in the budget debate seven years ago, I warned that,

Mark Isherwood: Wrth siarad yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb saith mlynedd yn ôl, rhybuddiais,

‘the economic reality was that Wales was living on the never-never, and that if Gordon Brown kept increasing public spending faster than economic growth as more than a short-term measure, there would be a day of reckoning for us all. That is why the International Monetary Fund criticised the Treasury’s approach to public finances and called for fiscal consolidation, meaning spending cuts or tax increases, in 2005.’

‘y realiti economaidd yw bod Cymru yn byw ar goel, ac os bydd Gordon Brown yn parhau i gynyddu gwariant cyhoeddus yn gyflymach na thwf economaidd ac yn gwneud hynny’n barhaol yn hytrach nag yn y byrdymor, byddwn oll yn wynebu dydd barn. Dyna pam y beirniadodd y Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol ymagwedd y Trysorlys tuag at gyllid cyhoeddus a pham y mae wedi galw am atgyfnerthu ariannol, sy’n golygu toriadau mewn gwariant neu godiadau treth yn 2005.’

That is why the UK was the last G20 economy out of recession, why we went into recession with the biggest budget deficit of any developed economy, and why we came out with the biggest budget deficit of any developed country with the exception of Ireland.

Dyna pam mai’r DU oedd yr economi G20 olaf allan o’r dirwasgiad, pam yr aethom i mewn i ddirwasgiad gyda’r diffyg cyllidebol mwyaf o unrhyw economi ddatblygedig, a pam y daethom allan gyda’r diffyg cyllidebol mwyaf o unrhyw wlad ddatblygedig ar wahân i Iwerddon.

Keynesian economics advocates deficit spending when an economy is suffering, but it also advocates cutting back on Government outlay in the boom times. It was Labour’s failure to do this that has denied the current UK Government a ceiling to borrow without jeopardising our AAA credit rating, shackling homeowners and business with higher interest rates and generating bigger, externally imposed cuts.

Mae economeg Keynesaidd yn eiriol dros wario’r diffyg pan fo economi yn dioddef, ond mae hefyd yn eiriol dros dorri nôl ar wariant y llywodraeth pan fo’r economi yn ffynnu. Methiant Llafur i wneud hyn sydd wedi peri nad oes trothwy benthyg gan Lywodraeth bresennol y DU heb roi ein statws credyd AAA mewn perygl, gan feichio perchnogion cartrefi a busnes gyda chyfraddau llog uwch a chynhyrchu toriadau mwy a orfodir arnynt o’r tu allan.

Mark Drakeford: I wonder whether you would like to identify for us the one occasion during the time that Gordon Brown was Chancellor when the Conservative party put that proposition to him.

Mark Drakeford: Tybed a allech chi nodi’r achlysur i ni pan oedd Gordon Brown yn Ganghellor pan wnaeth y blaid Geidwadol gyflwyno’r cynnig hwnnw iddo.

Mark Isherwood: I prefer truth with the economy rather than economy with the truth. [Interruption.]

Mark Isherwood: Mae’n well gen i’r gwirionedd am yr economi na bod yn economaidd gyda’r gwirionedd. [Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Llywydd: Trefn.  

Mark Isherwood: Labour left the UK with the biggest peacetime budget deficit in a century, double any previous deficit, larger even than that of Greece, and the largest of any major economy. During the late 1980s and much of the 1990s, Wales was successful in attracting inward investment, regularly gaining around 15 per cent of the inward investment and associated jobs coming to the UK. However, since devolution, Wales has lost large portions of its foreign manufacturing employment and output, with record youth unemployment, rising since 2005.

Mark Isherwood: Gadawodd Llafur y DU gyda’r diffyg cyllideb mwyaf mewn amser heddwch ers canrif, ddwywaith gymaint ag unrhyw ddiffyg blaenorol, a’r mwyaf o unrhyw economi o bwys. Yn ystod diwedd y 1980au a llawer o’r 1990au, bu Cymru yn llwyddiannus yn denu mewnfuddsoddiad, gan ennill yn aml tua 15 y cant o’r mewnfuddsoddiad a’r swyddi cysylltiedig a oedd yn dod i’r DU. Fodd bynnag, ers datganoli, mae Cymru wedi colli cyfran helaeth o’i swyddi ac allbwn gweithgynhyrchu dramor, gyda’r diweithdra ymysg pobl ifanc uchaf erioed, sydd wedi cynyddu ers 2005.

George Osborne’s autumn budget announced £30 billion for massive infrastructure investments. The UK Government wants to create thousands of jobs while improving services, increasing the UK’s ability to grow and improve the economy in the long term. A total of £216 million will be coming to Wales, together with significant revenue funding. Plans such as this inspire confidence in the UK’s current ability to repay loans, which is responsible in part for the excellent credit rates the UK is currently receiving. The only thing threatening such a plan would be a UK Labour Government gaining control of the Treasury before the plans can be fully realised. No party should sell its soul to the political devil, but the Liberal Democrats have signed up to Welsh Labour’s massive NHS cuts. [Interruption.]

Fe wnaeth cyllideb hydref George Osborne gyhoeddi £30 biliwn ar gyfer buddsoddiadau seilwaith anferth. Mae Llywodraeth y DU eisiau creu miloedd o swyddi tra’n gwella gwasanaethau, cynyddu gallu y DU i dyfu a gwella’r economi yn yr hirdymor. Bydd cyfanswm o £216 miliwn yn dod i Gymru, ynghyd ag arian refeniw sylweddol. Mae cynlluniau fel hyn yn ennyn hyder yng ngallu cyfredol y DU i ad-dalu benthyciadau, sy’n rhannol gyfrifol am y cyfraddau credyd rhagorol mae’r DU yn eu cael ar hyn o bryd. Yr unig beth a fyddai’n rhoi cynllun o’r fath yn y fantol fyddai Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn cael rheolaeth dros y Trysorlys cyn y gellid gwireddu’r cynlluniau yn llawn. Ni ddylai unrhyw blaid werthu ei henaid i’r diafol gwleidyddol, ond mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi penderfynu cefnogi toriadau anferth Llafur Cymru i’r GIG. [Torri ar draws.]  

The Presiding Officer: Order.

Y Llywydd: Trefn.

Mark Isherwood: I can smell the sulphur from here.

Mark Isherwood: Gallaf arogli’r sylffwr o’r fan hon.

The NHS in Wales now faces the toughest settlement in the UK, with a significant funding gap in this financial year and beyond. Without tackling the Welsh Government’s school funding postcode lottery, the pupil deprivation grant that was the Welsh Liberal Democrats price for supporting the budget cannot deliver the pupil-centred approach required to tackle failure in underachieving schools. Muppets; it does not compute, does it? [Laughter.]

Mae’r GIG yng Nghymru yn awr yn wynebu’r setliad anoddaf yn y DU, gyda bwlch ariannol sylweddol yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon a thu hwnt. Heb fynd i’r afael â’r loteri cod post ariannu ysgolion sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ni all y grant amddifadedd disgyblion, sef pris y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru am gefnogi’r gyllideb, gyflawni’r dull canolbwyntio ar y disgybl sydd ei angen i fynd i’r afael â methiant mewn ysgolion sy’n tangyflawni. Ffyliaid; nid yw’n gwneud synnwyr, nad yw? [Chwerthin.]

Welsh Labour’s refusal to implement a council tax freeze, despite being given £39 million by the UK Government to do this, ignores the fact that disposable household income in Wales is lower than that of any other UK nation and that wages in Wales are 15.3 per cent lower than those in England. [Interruption.]

Mae’r ffaith bod Llafur Cymru yn gwrthod rhewi’r dreth gyngor, er derbyn £39 miliwn gan Lywodraeth y DU i wneud hyn, yn anwybyddu’r ffaith bod incwm gwario aelwydydd yng Nghymru yn is nag yw mewn unrhyw genedl arall yn y DU a bod cyflogau yng Nghymru 15.3 y cant yn is nag ydynt yn Lloegr.

The Presiding Officer: Order. I am trying to listen to what Mark Isherwood is saying. Please can you give him some due respect and try to listen to what he is saying fairly quietly.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Yr wyf i’n ceisio gwrando ar beth mae Mark Isherwood yn ddweud. A fyddech cystal â rhoi rhywfaint o barch dyledus iddo a cheisio gwrando ar beth mae’n ddweud yn eithaf distaw?

Mark Isherwood: Thank you, Presiding Officer.

Mark Isherwood: Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd.

However, given that they had already stated they would be doing this, I called during the draft budget debate for consideration to be given to investing part of this amount in housing. After all, since devolution, the Welsh Government has already cut the supply of new social affordable housing by 60 per cent, and its extra cut to the social housing grant now is therefore a further 50 per cent cut to an already diminished budget.

Fodd bynnag, o ystyried eu bod wedi dweud yn barod y byddent yn gwneud hyn, galwais yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb ddrafft am roi ystyriaeth i fuddsoddi rhywfaint o’r swm hwn mewn tai. Wedi’r cyfan, ers datganoli, mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes wedi torri 60 y cant ar y cyflenwad newydd o dai fforddiadwy cymdeithasol, ac mae ei thoriad ychwanegol i’r grant tai cymdeithasol yn awr yn doriad 50 y cant arall i gyllideb sydd wedi cael ei chwtogi’n barod. 

3.15 p.m.

As Community Housing Cymru said, it believes that

Fel y dywedodd Tai Cymunedol Cymru, mae’n credu

‘if this additional money was invested in affordable housing, not only would it provide much needed homes for those on growing waiting lists, but it would also act as an economic stimulus for the Welsh economy.’

pe bai’r arian ychwanegol hwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi mewn tai fforddiadwy, byddai’n darparu cartrefi dirfawr eu hangen i’r rhai sydd ar restrau aros sy’n cynyddu, ac hefyd yn gweithredu fel ysgogiad economaidd i economi Cymru.  

It added that it can more than double Welsh Government investment in social housing, and therefore the number of additional housing units, to help to tackle the long-term housing supply crisis. Therefore, I welcome the additional £9.26 million allocated to affordable homes in the economic stimulus package. However, I am concerned by the Welsh Government’s statement—

Ychwanegodd y gall fwy na dyblu buddsoddiad Llywodraeth Cymru mewn tai cymdeithasol, ac felly nifer yr unedau tai ychwanegol, i helpu i fynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng cyflenwad tai hirdymor. Felly, rwy’n croesawu’r £9.26 miliwn ychwanegol a ddyrannwyd ar gyfer tai fforddiadwy yn y pecyn ysgogiad economaidd. Fodd bynnag, rwy’n bryderus am ddatganiad Llywodraeth Cymru—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Can you wind up, please?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A fyddech chi cystal â dirwyn i ben?

Mark Isherwood: This will deliver only 134 further affordable homes, despite it also stating that this will lever in private finance. Community Housing Cymru has shown—

Mark Isherwood: Dim ond 134 arall o dai fforddiadwy fydd hyn yn ei ddarparu, a hynny er iddo ddweud y bydd hyn yn denu cyllid preifat. Mae Tai Cymunedol Cymru wedi dangos—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Can you wind up, please?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A fyddech chi cystal â dirwyn I ben?

Mark Isherwood: This sum should be delivering triple that number—

Mark Isherwood: Dylai’r swm hwn fod yn darparu teirgwaith gymaint—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Time is up.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Mae eich amser ar ben.

Mark Isherwood: If success was measured by expenditure, post-devolution Wales would be booming, but as Oscar Wilde said—

Mark Isherwood: Pe bai llwyddiant yn cael ei fesur gan wariant, byddai Cymru ôl-ddatganoli yn ffynnu, ond fel y dywedodd Oscar Wilde—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Your time is up. [Laughter.]

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Mae eich amser ar ben. [Chwerthin.]

We have several more speakers this afternoon and I would like to be able to hear what they are saying.

Mae gennym sawl siaradwr arall y prynhawn yma ac fe hoffwn i glywed beth maent yn ddweud.

Alun Ffred Jones: Mae cefndir y gyllideb hon yn wybyddus i bawb, a’r rhagolygon o ran diweithdra yn y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat yn ddu iawn. Mae Lynne Neagle yn iawn i dynnu sylw at sefyllfa pobl ifanc sy’n chwilio am waith yn y cyd-destun hwn o bob math o gefndiroedd. Wrth ymweld â busnes lleol—cwmni dim-am-elw sy’n cyflogi 17 o bobl ifanc gan fwyaf—cefais fy nharo gan faint ohonynt a oedd wedi bod yn y coleg ac wedi graddio ond wedi gorfod mynd yn syth i weithio mewn archfarchnadoedd yn llwytho silffoedd. Yr oedd gan y bobl hyn raddau, ac yr oeddent yn llwytho silffoedd mewn archfarchnadoedd. Oni bai bod y cwmni hwn wedi symud i’r ardal ac wedi recriwtio yn lleol, mae’n debyg mai yno y bydden nhw, yn cymryd lle y bobl hynny y byddai gwaith o’r fath yn fwy at eu dant. Dyna yw’r realiti sy’n wynebu pobl ym mhob rhan o Gymru.

Alun Ffred Jones: The background to this budget is known to all, and the prospects for employment in the private and public sectors are very bleak. Lynne Neagle is right to draw attention to the position of young people seeking work in all sorts of backgrounds in this context. In visiting a local business—a not-for-profit company employing 17 mainly young people—I was struck by how many of them had been to college and graduated but had then had to go directly to work in supermarkets filling shelves. These were graduates who were filling shelves in supermarkets. Were it not for the fact that the company had moved into the area and recruited locally, it is quite likely that that is where they would still be, taking the place of people for whom such work would be more to their taste. So, that is the reality facing people in every part of Wales.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi condemnio’n gyson bolisïau cyllidol Llywodraeth San Steffan, ac mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi condemnio’n ddi-flewyn-ar-dafod y Torïaid a’r Rhyddfrydwyr Democrataidd am danseilio hyder yn yr economi drwy dorri gwariant cyhoeddus. Yr oedd yn condemnio’r ddwy blaid yn gyfartal, ond yn fwy diweddar mae wedi canolbwyntio ar y Torïaid, am resymau gweddol amlwg. Cytunaf 100 y cant â’r condemniad hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, y gwir amdani yw bod pobl—hyd yn oed y rhai mewn gwaith—yn amharod i wario. Mae’r banciau yn amharod i fenthyg ond yn barod iawn i hawlio benthyciadau yn ôl. Mae busnesau bach ar hyd a lled Cymru yn gwegian, ac mae canol ein trefi yn gwegian.

The Welsh Government has consistently condemned the financial policies of the Westminster Government, and the First Minister has condemned the Tories and the Liberal Democrats for undermining confidence in the economy by cutting public spending. He condemned both equally, but, more recently, he has been focusing on the Tories, for quite obvious reasons. I agree 100 per cent with that condemnation. However, the truth of the matter is that people—even those in work—have become unwilling to spend. The banks are unwilling to lend money but very willing to claim their loans back. Small businesses throughout Wales are suffering, and our town centres are suffering.

Yr oeddwn mewn siop cigydd yng nghanol tref yn ddiweddar. Bu’r busnes yn llwyddiannus dros y blynyddoedd, ac mae’n dal i gyflogi wyth neu naw o bobl brofiadol a gwybodus sy’n falch o’r gwaith y maent yn ei wneud—y math o fusnes y byddem i gyd yn falch o’i gael yn ein trefi. Yr oedd y cigydd yn pledio arnaf am gefnogaeth i fusnesau bach, gan nad oedd am golli’i staff. Ond, y gwir amdani, yn y cyd-destun sydd ohoni a’r gystadleuaeth o du archfarchnadoedd y tu allan i’r trefi, yw bod canol ein trefi yn gwegian ac mae angen cefnogaeth ar y busnesau yno. Dyna pam yr oeddem, yn ein trafodaethau gyda’r Llywodraeth, yn galw am ddyblygu cynllun bonws Llywodraeth yr Alban, sy’n fwy hael na lefelau rhyddhad ardrethi presennol Cymru. Fel y dywedodd Ieuan Wyn Jones, byddai hynny wedi gweld mwy o ryddhad graddoledig ar ardrethi i fusnesau Cymru gyda gwerth trethiannol o hyd at £18,000. Mae’r cynllun presennol yn rhoi rhyddhad i fusnesau â gwerth trethiannol o hyd at £12,000. Felly, gellid gwarchod a chreu miloedd a swyddi a chynnal canol ein trefi a chyflogwyr a busnesau lleol—sef mwyafrif busnesau Cymru.

I was in a butcher’s shop in the middle of a town recently. The business had been very successful, and it still employs eight or nine experienced and knowledgeable people who are proud of the work that they do—the sort of business that we would all be proud to have in our towns. The butcher was pleading with me for support for small businesses, because he does not want to lose his staff. However, the truth of the matter is that, in the current climate and given the competition from out-of-town supermarkets, our town centres are suffering and those businesses require support. That is why we, in our negotiations with the Government, called for the replication of the Scottish Government’s bonus scheme, which is more generous than Wales’s rate relief scheme. As Ieuan Wyn Jones said, that would provide more incremental relief for Welsh businesses with a rateable value of up to £18,000. The current scheme gives rate relief to businesses with a value of up to £12,000. In that way, we could safeguard and create jobs and support our town centres and local employers and businesses—the majority of businesses in Wales.

Fel y dywedodd Ieuan, byddai hyn wedi dod ag 8,000 o fusnesau bach i mewn i gynllun o’r fath. Wrth gwrs, byddai pris i’w dalu am hynny, ond yn yr amser caled ac anodd sydd ohoni, mae rhoi arian uniongyrchol i fusnesau—er mai mesur dros dro ydyw—yn ffordd wirioneddol effeithiol o gynnal cyflogaeth a rhoi hyder yn ôl i nifer o fusnesau sydd yn ystyried eu dyfodol ar hyn o bryd. Os ydym yn colli mwy ohonynt, bydd yr effaith nid yn unig yn effaith economaidd, ond yn effaith cymdeithasol, wrth ichi greu trefi sydd wedi mynd yn lleoedd nad oes neb am eu gweld. Mae hynny yn tanseilio hyder cymunedau. Dyna oedd ein blaenoriaeth ni, ond, yn anffodus, nid dyna oedd blaenoriaeth y Llywodraeth. Dyna’i dewis a dewis y Rhyddfrydwyr Democrataidd, sy’n rhan o’r Llywodraeth sy’n torri arian cyhoeddus yn San Steffan.

As Ieuan said, this would have brought an additional 8,000 small businesses into such a scheme. Of course, there would be a price to pay for that, but in the difficult and hard times that we face, giving money directly to businesses—even though an interim measure—would be a truly effective means of sustaining employment and giving confidence back to businesses currently considering their future. If we lose more of them, the impact will not only be economic but social as well, as we create towns that become places that people do not want to see. That undermines the confidence of communities. That was our priority, but, unfortunately, it was not the Government’s priority. That is the Government’s choice, and the choice of the Liberal Democrats, who are part of the Government that is cutting public spending in Westminster.

Fodd bynnag, ar ôl gwneud ein ple ar ran busnesau bach yng Nghymru, byddai’n od iawn inni gefnogi cyllideb nad yw’n rhoi’r flaenoriaeth honno, ynghyd â rhaglen gyfalaf a fyddai, mewn gwirionedd, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i gwmnïau ledled Cymru. Ein blaenoriaeth yw ceisio sicrhau cyflogaeth a chynnal busnesau bach ym mhob tref a phentref yng Nghymru. Byddwn yn dal i ddadlau o blaid hynny ar bob cyfle yn y Siambr yn y dyfodol.

However, having made our plea on behalf of small businesses in Wales, it would be very odd for us then to support a budget that does not give that priority, together with a capital programme that would make a real difference to companies across Wales. Our priority is to try to secure employment and sustain small businesses in every town and village in Wales. We will make that argument at every opportunity in the Chamber in the future.

Kirsty Williams: Back in May, with an inconclusive election result, we knew that Labour would form a Government, but we also knew that it would take at least two parties working together in the national interest to ensure that Wales had a budget—a budget that ensures the delivery of essential services that we and all of the people of Wales rely upon. Back in May, there was talk from all sides of stability and humility, and about putting aside tribalism. Those words have, by and large, already been forgotten by some of the people who uttered them, and certainly by their parties. I said then that stability would be possible only if parties worked together. That means give and take from all. That is why I am proud to back the budget today. This is a budget that begins to deliver on the key policy that the Welsh Liberal Democrats put forward to the people of Wales in May. It is a budget that avoids a crisis in these most dire of economic times, and a budget that gives this institution some credibility after the establishment of the hard-fought-for Silk commission, which looks to give this institution greater fiscal responsibility.

Kirsty Williams: Yn ôl ym mis Mai, gyda chanlyniad etholiad amhendant, gwyddem y byddai Llafur yn ffurfio Llywodraeth, ond gwyddem hefyd y byddai angen cydweithio rhwng o leiaf dwy blaid er lles y genedl i sicrhau bod gan Gymru gyllideb —cyllideb sy’n sicrhau bod gwasanaethau allweddol yn cael eu darparu yr ydym ni a holl bobl Cymru yn dibynnu arnynt. Yn ôl ym mis Mai, roedd sôn o bob ochr am sefydlogrwydd a gwyleidd-dra, ac am roi teyrngarwch llwythol o’r neilltu. Ar y cyfan, fe anghofiwyd y geiriau hynny gan rai o’r bobl a’i dywedodd, ac yn sicr gan eu pleidiau. Dywedais bryd hynny na fyddai sefydlogrwydd yn bosibl oni bai bod y pleidiau yn cydweithio. Mae hyn yn golygu rhoi a derbyn gan bawb. Dyna pam rwyf yn falch o gefnogi’r gyllideb heddiw. Dyma gyllideb sy’n cychwyn gwireddu polisi allweddol a roddodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru gerbron pobl Cymru ym mis Mai. Mae’n gyllideb sy’n osgoi argyfwng yn yr amseroedd economaidd mwyaf enbyd hyn, cyllideb sy’n rhoi rhywfaint o hygrededd i’r sefydliad hwn ar ôl sefydlu comisiwn Silk, y bu brwydro mawr i’w sefydlu, ac sy’n bwriadu rhoi mwy o gyfrifoldeb ariannol i’r sefydliad hwn.

When money is tight, you have to be clear about your priorities. Our priority is to ensure that the most disadvantaged children in this country get the help they need. It is clear for all to see that the economies of Wales, the UK and the world are in desperate need of support. That is why I said that the Welsh Liberal Democrats would not back any budget that did not progress towards closing the funding gap between schools in England and Wales, starting with the poorest children first, nor would we vote for a budget that neglected the need to tackle unemployment and boost the economy. Those were our priorities in the election and they were our priorities as we approached these budget negotiations. In this budget, we have agreed an economic stimulus package to help boost the economy, protect jobs in these difficult times, and get people back into training. We have negotiated with the Government to ensure additional funding for schools to improve the attainment of pupils from the poorest backgrounds. I do not think that we need to apologise for that deal.

Pan fo arian yn dynn, mae’n rhaid i chi fod yn glir am eich blaenoriaethau. Ein blaenoriaeth yw sicrhau bod y plant mwyaf difreintiedig yn y wlad hon yn cael yr help sydd ei angen arnynt. Mae’n amlwg i bawb fod economïau Cymru, y DU a’r byd angen cymorth ar frys. Dyna pam y dywedais na fyddai Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cefnogi unrhyw gyllideb nad oedd yn mynd ati i gau’r bwlch ariannu rhwng ysgolion yng Nghymru a Lloegr, gan ddechrau gyda’r plant tlotaf, ac na fyddem chwaith yn pleidleisio o blaid cyllideb nad oedd yn mynd i’r afael â’r angen i ymdrin â diweithdra a hybu’r economi. Dyna oedd ein blaenoriaethau yn yr etholiad a dyna oedd ein blaenoriaethau wrth i ni fynd i mewn i’r negodiadau hyn ar y gyllideb. Yn y gyllideb hon, rydym wedi cytuno ar becyn i ysgogi’r economi, i ddiogelu swyddi yn yr amseroedd hyn, a chael pobl yn ôl i mewn i hyfforddiant. Rydym wedi negodi gyda’r Llywodraeth er mwyn sicrhau arian ychwanegol i ysgolion wella cyrhaeddiad disgyblion o’r cefndiroedd tlotaf. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod angen i ni ymddiheuro am y fargen honno.

I know that many in the Chamber and the media will be unable to view this budget without considering the political implications and what it will mean for the various parties here. I am less interested in the politics. However, let me make it clear for Paul Davies’s sake: I do not know how it works in the Tory party, Paul, but no man in London tells me what to do in this Chamber. [Assembly Members: ‘Oh.’] This budget is a case of the Welsh Liberal Democrats getting the very best deal that we can for the people of Wales. Investing in our education system is the best way to break the cycle of poverty, poor health and a weak economy. Currently, only one in five of our children on free school meals goes on to get five good GCSEs including English and mathematics. That might have been good enough in the past, but it is not good enough in a global economy now and it will not be good enough for the Welsh economy of the future. The economy needs short-term support, and this budget provides just that. However, the Welsh economy needs long-term support too. Pupil by pupil, school by school, community by community, we must begin to break the link between poverty and attainment that has dogged our education system for far too long, and that has dogged our economy and our economic performance for far too long. That is why my party will not just be happy, but will be proud, to back this budget today.

Gwn na fydd llawer yn y Siambr a’r cyfryngau yn gallu edrych ar y gyllideb hon heb ystyried y goblygiadau gwleidyddol a beth fydd yn ei olygu i’r amryw bleidiau yma. Mae gen i lai o ddiddordeb yn y wleidyddiaeth. Fodd bynnag, er budd Paul Davies, gadewch i mi ei wneud yn glir: Wn i ddim sut mae’n gweithio yn y blaid Dorïaidd, Paul, ond nid oes neb yn Llundain yn dweud wrthyf beth i’w wneud yn y Siambr hon. [Aelodau Cynulliad: ‘O.’] Mae’r gyllideb hon yn enghraifft o Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cael y fargen orau y gallwn ei chael i bobl Cymru. Buddsoddi yn ein system addysg yw’r ffordd orau i dorri’r cylch tlodi, iechyd gwael ac economi wan. Ar  hyn o bryd, dim ond un o bob pump o’n plant ar brydau ysgol am ddim sy’n mynd ymlaen i gael pum TGAU da yn cynnwys Saesneg a Mathemateg. Efallai y bu hynny’n ddigon da yn y gorffennol, ond nid yw’n ddigon da mewn economi fyd-eang yn awr ac ni fydd yn ddigon da i economi Cymru yn y dyfodol. Mae angen cymorth yn y tymor byr ar yr economi, ac mae’r gyllideb hon yn gwneud yn union hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae angen cymorth hirdymor ar yr economi hefyd. Fesul disgybl, ysgol a chymuned, rhaid i ni ddechrau torri’r cyswllt rhwng tlodi a chyrhaeddiad sydd wedi llesteirio ein system addysg ers lawer rhy hir, ac sydd wedi llesteirio ein heconomi a’n perfformiad economaidd ers lawer rhy hir. Dyna pam y bydd fy mhlaid nid yn unig yn hapus, ond hefyd yn falch o gefnogi’r gyllideb hon heddiw.

Mike Hedges: I speak as someone else who is very proud to support a Labour Government budget for jobs and growth. However, I would first like to talk about the background to the budget. We are facing problems with the euro. One thing that we should all do is congratulate Gordon Brown and Tony Blair for keeping us out of the euro, when at least two parties in this Chamber wanted us to join it.

Mike Hedges: Siaradaf fel un arall sy’n falch iawn o gefnogi cyllideb Llywodraeth Lafur ar gyfer swyddi a thwf. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn sôn yn gyntaf am y cefndir i’r gyllideb. Rydym yn wynebu problemau gyda’r ewro. Un peth y dylem oll ei wneud yw llongyfarch Gordon Brown a Tony Blair am ein cadw allan o’r ewro, pan oedd o leiaf ddwy blaid yn y Siambr am i ni ymuno ag ef.  

We are now facing a Conservative and Lib Dem Government that is cutting too deep and too fast, and we are suffering the repercussions. You can grow your way out of recession, or you can cut and cut and cut, and make the recession worse and worse. That appears to be the decision that has been made at Westminster—to cut and cut and make matters worse and worse. We have seen severe cuts to the Welsh budget, particularly to the capital budget. People are saying that this and that should not be cut; perhaps they should take it up with the Conservative-led Government in London, which is making sure that those cuts are coming to Wales.

Rydym yn awr yn wynebu Llywodraeth Geidwadol a Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol sy’n torri’n rhy ddwfn ac yn rhy gyflym, ac rydym yn dioddef y canlyniadau. Gallwch dyfu eich hun allan o ddirwasgiad, neu gallwch dorri a thorri a thorri, a gwneud y dirwasgiad yn waeth ac yn waeth. Ymddengys mai dyna yw’r penderfyniad a wnaed yn San Steffan—i dorri a thorri a gwneud materion yn waeth ac yn waeth. Gwelsom doriadau llym i gyllideb Cymru, yn enwedig i’r gyllideb gyfalaf. Mae pobl yn dweud na ddylid torri’r hyn a’r llall; efallai y dylent godi’r mater gyda’r Llywodraeth dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr yn Llundain, sy’n gwneud yn siŵr bod y toriadau hynny yn dod i Gymru.

This is a budget to stimulate the economy. I am very pleased that we have a far better settlement for local government than is the case in England. When we had the resolution last month, I was equally disappointed that more money was wanted for every sector apart from local government. I think that this extra money for local government could give local authorities an opportunity to engage in prudential borrowing. That means that we could get more capital work done in Wales, and I hope that local government will take the opportunity to borrow prudentially in order to fulfil capital expenditure.

Cyllideb i ysgogi’r economi yw hon. Rwy’n falch iawn fod gennym ni setliad llawer gwell i lywodraeth leol nag sy’n wir yn Lloegr. Pan gawsom y penderfyniad fis diwethaf, roeddwn yr un mor siomedig bod angen mwy o arian i bob sector ar wahân i lywodraeth leol. Rwy’n meddwl y gallai’r arian ychwanegol hwn i lywodraeth leol roi’r cyfle i awdurdodau lleol ddechrau benthyca yn ddarbodus. Golyga hynny y gallem gyflawni mwy o waith cyfalaf yng Nghymru, ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd llywodraeth leol yn manteisio ar y cyfle i fenthyca’n ddarbodus er mwyn cyflawni gwariant cyfalaf.

We have seen targeted support for the Welsh economy. In Swansea, we have seen two lots of investment in life science, which has gone into enterprise zones—£10 million is a huge investment in something that is at the forefront of technology, something that is a growth sector and something that will take Wales forward. Yesterday, we saw a commitment to a substantial school building programme. I welcome the extra money for education. We have had a downward spiral of expenditure by local authorities in Wales for the last 10 years. A total of 43.4 per cent of local authority revenue was spent on education in 2001-02. That figure had dropped to 38 per cent by 2010-11, which was even less than the 38.1 per cent seen in 2009-10. What we have seen is local authorities run by independents, Liberal Democrats and so on in Wales taking money out of education and putting it into a whole range of other services. Those are the facts of the matter. I would hope that people would be very much in favour of putting more money into education. I also hope that this will turn around what has been happening in Wales, with money being taken out of education.

Rydym wedi gweld cymorth wedi’i dargedu ar gyfer economi Cymru. Yn Abertawe, gwelsom ddwy enghraifft o fuddsoddiad mewn gwyddorau bywyd, sydd wedi mynd i barthau menter—mae £10 miliwn yn fuddsoddiad anferth mewn rhywbeth sydd ar flaen y gad o ran technoleg, rhywbeth sydd yn sector twf a rhywbeth a fydd yn symud Cymru ymlaen. Ddoe, gwelsom ymrwymiad i raglen adeiladu ysgolion sylweddol. Croesawaf yr arian ychwanegol ar gyfer addysg. Mae gwariant gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf wedi dirywio’n raddol. Cafodd cyfanswm o 43.4 y cant o refeniw awdurdod lleol ei wario ar addysg yn 2001-02. Aeth y ffigur hwnnw i lawr i 38 y cant erbyn 2010-11, a oedd hyd yn oed yn llai na’r 38.1 y cant a welwyd yn 2009-10. Yr hyn a welsom yw awdurdodau lleol yn cael eu rhedeg gan aelodau annibynnol, Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ac yn y blaen yng Nghymru yn cymryd arian allan o addysg a’i roi i mewn i amryw o wasanaeth eraill. Dyna yw’r ffeithiau. Buaswn yn gobeithio y byddai pobl yn gryf o blaid rhoi mwy o arian i mewn i addysg. Gobeithio hefyd y bydd hyn yn gwyrdroi yr hyn a fu’n digwydd yng Nghymru, gydag arian yn cael ei dynnu allan o addysg.

I have spent several weeks sitting on the Finance Committee scrutinising the draft budget. One thing that we noticed was that there was a total lack of alternatives. If we are going to be a mature democracy, people should have ideas to put forward. Perhaps that is why we have a Finance Committee—for those ideas to be put forward. Regarding NHS spending in Wales, however much was in the budget, the Conservatives would have asked for more. If the USA can spend 16.2 per cent of its GDP on health, there is plenty more money that can be put into it, and it is always possible to ask for more. The Conservatives have also supported regional pay, which can only be to the disadvantage of the people of Wales.

Yr wyf wedi treulio nifer o wythnosau yn eistedd ar y Pwyllgor Cyllid yn craffu ar y gyllideb ddrafft. Un peth y gwnaethom sylwi arno oedd bod diffyg opsiynau amgen. Os ydym am fod yn ddemocratiaeth aeddfed, dylai pobl gynnig syniadau. Efallai mai dyna pam mae gennym Bwyllgor Cyllid—i gynnig y syniadau hynny. O ran gwariant ar y GIG yng Nghymru, faint bynnag oedd yn y gyllideb, byddai’r Ceidwadwyr wedi gofyn am fwy. Os gall UDA wario 16.2 y cant o’i GMC ar iechyd, gellid rhoi digonedd mwy o arian ynddo, ac mae bob amser yn bosibl gofyn am fwy. Mae’r Ceidwadwyr hefyd wedi cefnogi cyflog rhanbarthol, a fyddai'n rhoi pobl Cymru o dan anfantais.  

This is a budget that is good for Wales in the context of where we are now, which is a position that has been set by the national Conservative and Liberal Democrat Government, and the cuts that it has brought in. It needs to re-examine the whole issue and look at what is happening. Osborne has discovered that ‘Osborne 1’ has not worked; he has started on ‘Osborne 1.5’, but he now needs to start on ‘Osborne 2’. We need to be in a situation in which the national Government in Westminster puts enough money into the public sector in Wales so that we do not have to talk about whether we should cut here or there, but about a good quality public sector. 

Mae hon yn gyllideb dda i Gymru yng nghyd-destun lle rydym yn awr, sy’n sefyllfa a gafodd ei chreu gan y Lywodraeth Geidwadol a Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol genedlaethol, a’r toriadau a gyflwynodd. Mae angen iddi ailystyried yr holl fater ac edrych ar beth sy’n digwydd. Mae Osborne wedi darganfod nad yw ‘Osborne 1’ wedi gweithio; mae wedi cychwyn ar ‘Osborne 1.5’, ond mae angen iddo’n awr ddechrau ar ‘Osborne 2’. Mae angen i ni fod mewn sefyllfa lle mae’r Llywodraeth genedlaethol yn San Steffan yn rhoi digon o arian yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru fel nad oes rhaid i ni sôn am ba un a ddylem dorri fan hyn neu fan arall, ond yn hytrach am sector cyhoeddus o safon dda.

Angela Burns: I would like to ask for some clarity, Mike. I am not sure whether you just said that the Finance Committee should take budget proposals from other people, and that you had not had a chance to compare them. If that is the case, I would be absolutely delighted to do so.

Angela Burns: Hoffwn ofyn i chi egluro mwy, Mike. Nid wyf yn siŵr a ydych chi newydd ddweud y dylai’r Pwyllgor Cyllid dderbyn cynigion cyllideb gan bobl eraill, ac na chawsoch gyfle i’w cymharu. Os mai dyna yw’r achos, byddwn wrth fy modd yn gwneud hynny.

3.30 p.m.

Mike Hedges: In the Finance Committee, when we were putting questions to Ministers and others, I would have thought that one of the questions from the other parties would have been why there was not more money being put into health, economic development or education, and why the Minister had decided to put money into one thing rather than another. That was an opportunity to test the Minister with regard to the policies being put out by the other parties. That is what I expected, and I was very surprised that that did not happen. I hope that it can happen in the future, because that is how to take it forward, rather than having deals done later on and a situation in which we only know what is going to happen when we read it in the Western Mail or see it on the BBC.

Mike Hedges: Yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid, pan oeddem yn gofyn cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog ac eraill, byddwn wedi tybio mai un o’r cwestiynau gan y pleidiau eraill fyddai pam nad oedd mwy o arian yn cael ei roi i mewn i iechyd, datblygu economaidd neu addysg, a pham fod y Gweinidog wedi penderfynu rhoi arian i mewn i un peth yn hytrach na’r llall. Yr oedd hynny yn gyfle i roi’r Gweinidog ar brawf o ran y polisïau sy’n cael eu cynnig gan y pleidiau eraill. Dyna beth yr oeddwn yn ei ddisgwyl, a synnais yn fawr na ddigwyddodd hynny. Gobeithio y bydd yn digwydd yn y dyfodol, achos dyna sut mae mynd ag ef yn ei flaen, yn hytrach na tharo bargen yn ddiweddarach a sefyllfa lle nad ydym yn gwybod beth sy’n digwydd hyd nes i ni ddarllen amdano yn y Western Mail neu ei weld ar y BBC.

Nick Ramsay: Follow that. It is always interesting to listen to Mike Hedges’s musings on the euro and Gordon Brown’s involvement in it. You made the point, Mike, that you have to grow your way out of recession. Yes, you do have to grow your way out of recession, but the point is that you cannot borrow your way out of recession. That is why we are in the position we are in now, because half of the Liberal Democrats—those in London—have taken the decisions necessary to help us to get out of the mess that Gordon Brown, as the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer, left us in.

Nick Ramsay: Sut mae dilyn hynny? Mae bob amser yn ddifyr gwrando ar fyfyrdodau Mike Hedges ar yr ewro a rhan Gordon Brown ynddo. Fe wnaethoch y pwynt, Mike, bod yn rhaid i chi dyfu eich hun allan o ddirwasgiad. Oes, mae’n rhaid i chi dyfu eich hun allan o ddirwasgiad, ond y pwynt yw na allwch chi fenthyca eich hun allan o ddirwasgiad. Dyna pam yr ydym yn y sefyllfa yr ydym ynddi yn awr, achos mae hanner y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol—y rhai yn Llundain—wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau sydd eu hangen arnom i’n helpu i ddatrys y llanastr y gadawyd ni ynddo gan Gordon Brown, cyn Ganghellor y Trysorlys.

I heard the shrieks of relief from Kirsty Williams and the Liberal Democrats during Paul’s opening contribution to this debate and, at the same time, the deafening silence from the Labour backbenches—I thought that that spoke volumes. Clearly, the message from the Labour mothership to its backbenchers today has been, ‘Keep quiet; let’s get their support for this vote and make sure that we get what we want out of this and then do what we like afterwards’.

Clywais y sgrechiadau o ryddhad gan Kirsty Williams a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn ystod cyfraniad agoriadol Paul i’r ddadl hon ac, ar yr un pryd, y tawelwch byddarol o feinciau cefn Llafur—yr oeddwn yn meddwl bod hynny yn dweud llawer. Yn amlwg, y neges gan bencadlys Llafur i’w aelodau meinciau cefn heddiw oedd, ‘Cadwch yn dawel; fe gawn eu cefnogaeth i hyn a gwneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cael beth rydym eisiau allan o hyn a gwneud fel y mynnom wedyn’.

I understand quite well why the Liberal Democrats have ended up in the position that they have and I understand why they have taken the decisions that they have—we have local government elections fast approaching next year. It always amuses me when a leader of a political party says that she has not taken a decision for political reasons. The electorate will decide why they think people in this Chamber have made the decisions that they have. Do you know what? I really hope that you are right, Kirsty, I really do. Having listened to the rather pessimistic contribution from the Member for Torfaen, I think that we need a bit of optimism in this debate. We all accept that we are in a very difficult situation, not because of the actions of people here, it must be said, but largely because of the actions of the Labour Party at Westminster and the absolute shambles that it left the British economy in. Thank goodness that that is being dealt with.

Yr wyf yn deall yn burion pam fod y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi cyrraedd y sefyllfa maent ynddi a pham eu bod wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau a wnaethant—mae etholiadau llywodraeth leol ar ein gwarthaf y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae wastad yn gwneud i mi wenu pan ddywed arweinydd plaid wleidyddol nad yw hi wedi gwneud penderfyniad am resymau gwleidyddol. Bydd yr etholwyr yn penderfynu pam eu bod yn meddwl bod pobl yn y Siambr hon wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau a wnaethant. Wyddoch chi beth? Yr wyf wir yn gobeithio eich bod chi’n iawn, Kirsty, wir yr. Ar ôl gwrando ar y cyfraniad diobaith braidd gan yr Aelod dros Dor-faen, credaf ein bod angen ychydig o obaith yn y ddadl hon. Yr ydym oll yn derbyn ein bod mewn sefyllfa anodd tu hwnt, nid oherwydd gweithredoedd pobl yma, rhaid dweud, ond yn bennaf oherwydd gweithredoedd y Blaid Lafur yn San Steffan a’r llanastr y gadawodd economi Prydain ynddo. Diolch i’r drefn bod hwnnw yn cael ei ddatrys.

Turning to Plaid Cymru’s comments, I am pleased that Ieuan Wyn Jones said that the NHS should not be a priority. He said that that was his party’s decision, that the health service should not be a priority. He was quite candid about it. We have made it quite clear in our contributions from this side of the Chamber that we think that it should be a priority. I have to say, at a time when the economy is the situation that it is, people will be looking increasingly to the NHS for help over the next few years, because there will not be so much money available for private health schemes and the like. For the current Welsh Government to take money out of the health service at this time is scandalous—I made that point in the run-up to the Assembly elections, and I make it again now.

Gan droi at sylwadau Plaid Cymru, yr wyf yn falch bod Ieuan Wyn Jones wedi dweud na ddylai’r GIG fod yn flaenoriaeth. Dywedodd mai dyna oedd penderfyniad ei blaid, na ddylai’r gwasanaeth iechyd fod yn flaenoriaeth. Yr oedd yn eithaf gonest am y peth. Yr ydym wedi gwneud yn glir ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr ein bod yn meddwl y dylai fod yn flaenoriaeth. Rhaid i mi ddweud, ar adeg pan mae’r economi yn y sefyllfa mae ynddi, bydd pobl yn edrych fwyfwy i’r GIG am help dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, achos ni fydd cymaint o arian ar gael ar gyfer cynlluniau iechyd preifat ac ati. Mae’n warth bod y Llywodraeth Cymru bresennol yn mynd ag arian oddi ar y gwasanaeth iechyd—fe wneuthum y pwynt hwnnw yn y cyfnod yn arwain at etholiadau’r Cynulliad, ac fe’i gwnaf eto yn awr.

I will just mention the issue raised by a few Members about the £38 million that was originally due for the council tax freeze. I find that quite interesting also, because that was thrown into the pot during the budget discussions. As far as I was aware, we were going to discuss that anyway. Given the decision by the Welsh Government not to allow council tax payers in Wales to have that money at their disposal—we were quite candid about the fact that that would have been a far better use of that money—the Government did, to its credit, say that it would like us all to have an input into how this money is spent. I find it bizarre that that money has now popped up again and was put on the table. You cannot spend the same money twice, but, clearly, you can promise it twice and expect everybody to be grateful for it.

Soniaf am y mater a godwyd gan ambell Aelod am y £38 miliwn a oedd i fod yn wreiddiol ar gyfer rhewi’r dreth gyngor. Yr oeddwn yn meddwl bod hynny yn eithaf difyr hefyd, achos fe daflwyd hynny i’r pair yn ystod y trafodaethau ar y gyllideb. Hyd y gwn i, yr oeddem yn mynd i drafod hynny p’run bynnag. O ystyried y penderfyniad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i beidio a chaniatáu trethdalwyr cyngor yng Nghymru i ddefnyddio’r arian hwnnw—yr oeddem yn eithaf gonest am y ffaith y byddai hynny wedi bod yn well defnydd o lawer o’r arian—fe wnaeth y Llywodraeth ddweud, er tegwch, y byddai’n hoffi i ni gyd gael ein dweud ar sut y dylid gwario’r arian hwn. Mae’n rhyfedd iawn fod yr arian hwnnw wedi dod i’r golwg eto yn awr a’i roi ar y bwrdd. Ni allwch wario’r un arian ddwywaith, ond, yn amlwg, fe allwch ei addo ddwywaith a disgwyl i bawb fod yn ddiolchgar amdano.

As you probably have detected, I cannot support this budget. I really do hope that I am wrong, but I think that this budget has been made out of desperation more than out of any thought for how the people of Wales would benefit from a stable position. I agree with what the Liberal Democrats said earlier, that Wales needs a budget. We all know that and, ultimately, we had to have one. Given that the Labour Party is the party with the largest number of Members here, I do not think that it is a surprise to people outside that you have had an input into that budget. We need to be clear that this is very much your budget. As I said, I hope that I am wrong and that the Liberal Democrats will not live to regret the decision that they have made today.

Fel yr ydych wedi synhwyro mae’n debyg, ni allaf gefnogi’r gyllideb hon. Gobeithio’n wir fy mod yn anghywir, ond credaf fod y gyllideb hon wedi ei gwneud yn niffyg popeth arall yn hytrach nag unrhyw feddwl am sut y byddai pobl Cymru yn elwa o sefyllfa sefydlog. Cytunaf gyda beth ddywedodd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn gynharach, sef bod Cymru angen cyllideb. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod hynny, ac yn y pen draw, yr oedd yn rhaid i ni gael un. O ystyried mai’r Blaid Lafur sydd â’r nifer fwyaf o Aelodau yma, nid wyf yn credu ei bod yn syndod i bobl tu allan eich bod wedi cael mewnbwn i’r gyllideb honno. Mae’n rhaid i ni fod yn glir mai eich cyllideb chi yw hon yn bennaf. Fel y dywedais, gobeithio fy mod yn anghywir ac na fydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn edifar am y penderfyniad a wnaethant heddiw.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Dywedodd y Gweinidog wrth gyflwyno’r gyllideb hon i ni y prynhawn yma bod rhywbeth ynddi y gallem i gyd gytuno ag ef. Mae’n anodd anghytuno â’r datganiad hwnnw. Mae pethau yn y gyllideb y byddwn i gyd yn cytuno â hwy. Gwnaethom, fel plaid, pan oeddem mewn Llywodraeth, gytuno â rhan helaeth o ddarpariaethau’r gyllideb hon, ac nid ydym yn tynnu’n ôl o’r sefyllfa honno y prynhawn yma. Fodd bynnag, y cwestiwn mawr o ran y gyllideb hon yw: pa fath o sefyllfa sy’n ein hwynebu yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd? Beth yw’r blaenoriaethau ar gyfer y gyllideb hon yng Nghymru? Mae hwnnw’n gwestiwn y dylai bob un o’r pleidiau sy’n cyfrannu at y drafodaeth hon ei wynebu.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: The Minister said in presenting this budget to us this afternoon that there was something in it that we could all agree with. It is difficult to disagree with that statement. There are things in the budget that we would all agree with. As a party, when we were in Government, we agreed to the provisions in this budget in large part, and we do not withdraw from that position this afternoon. However, the big question in relation to this budget is: what kind of situation faces us in Wales now? What are the priorities for this budget in Wales? That is a question that every party contributing to this debate should address.

Nid wyf yn anghytuno yn sylfaenol â’r cytundeb mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi llwyddo i’w gyrraedd â’r Llywodraeth. Mae dadleuon digon cryf dros y pwyslais maent yn ei osod ar addysg, hyfforddiant a chefnogi’r bobl fwyaf difreintiedig yn ein cymdeithas i sicrhau y cânt fynediad i’r gwasanaethau addysg hynny. Er hynny, ai dyna’r flaenoriaeth y dyddiau hyn yng Nghymru?

I do not fundamentally disagree with the agreement that the Liberal Democrats have managed to reach with the Government. There are quite strong arguments for the emphasis that they place on education, training and supporting the most deprived people in our society to ensure that they can access those education services. However, is that the priority these days in Wales?

Mae dadl gryf yn cael ei chyflwyno gan y Blaid Geidwadol ynglŷn â diogelu’r gyllideb ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd. Mae rhai ohonom wedi dadlau dros y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol am flynyddoedd. Nid yw hynny wedi bod yn flaenoriaeth i’r Blaid Geidwadol dros y blynyddoedd. Fodd bynnag, deallais o’r hyn a ddywedodd Nick Ramsay mai’r rheswm maent am ddiogelu gwasanaethau’r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol yn awr yw bod llai o bobl yn gallu fforddio mynd yn breifat bellach oherwydd y sefyllfa economaidd. Felly, mae’n rhaid iddynt ddiogelu’r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol gan fydd llawer o aelodau’r Blaid Geidwadol yn gorfod dibynnu ar y gwasanaethau hynny’n awr. Mae’n debyg oedd popeth yn iawn pan mai dim ond pobl gyffredin, cymharol dlawd oedd yn dibynnu ar y gwasanaethau hynny. Y cwestiwn mae’n rhaid i’r Blaid Geidwadol ei wynebu yw: ai dyna’r flaenoriaeth ar hyn o bryd? Dyna’r broblem sylfaenol sydd gennyf ac sydd gan grŵp Plaid Cymru â’r gyllideb sy’n cael ei chyflwyno ger ein bron y prynhawn yma.

A strong argument is being put forward by the Conservative party about safeguarding the budget for health services. Some of us have been arguing for the national health service for years. That has not been a priority for the Conservative party over the years. However, I understood from what Nick Ramsay said that the reason why they now want to safeguard services in the national health service is that fewer people can afford to go private because of the economic situation. Therefore, they have to safeguard the national health service as many more members of the Conservative party will have to depend upon those services now. It seems that everything was okay when only ordinary, relatively poor people had to depend upon those services. The question that the Conservative party has to face is: is that the priority at the moment? That is the fundamental problem that I and the Plaid Cymru group have with the budget that has been put before us this afternoon.

Mae’n gyllideb ddigon derbyniol. Pe bai’r sefyllfa yn sefyllfa arferol, a’r math o sefyllfa sydd wedi wynebu’r Cynulliad a gwahanol Lywodraethau dros y 12 mlynedd diwethaf, byddai’r gyllideb hon yn ddigon derbyniol, ond nid dyna yw’r sefyllfa. Y sefyllfa sy’n ein hwynebu yw economi sy’n hynod fregus—sefyllfa lle, yn ôl y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd yn ddiweddar, mae mwy o fusnesau yn cau yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd nag sy’n cael eu creu. A oes unrhyw beth yn y gyllideb hon i alluogi busnesau i sefydlu’u hunain yng Nghymru? A oes unrhyw beth yn y gyllideb hon sy’n mynd i ddiogelu busnesau sy’n wynebu cau yn y dyfodol agos yng Nghymru? Nac oes.

It is an acceptable enough budget. If the situation were a normal situation, and the kind of situation that has faced the Assembly and various Governments over the past 12 years, this budget would be acceptable enough, but that is not the situation. The situation facing us is an economy that is very fragile—a situation where, according to the evidence presented recently, more businesses are closing in Wales at the moment than are being created. Is there anything in this budget to enable businesses to establish themselves in Wales? Is there anything in this budget that will safeguard businesses that are facing imminent closure in Wales? No, there is not.

O ran y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, a oes unrhyw beth yn y gyllideb hon sy’n mynd i ganiatáu i’r bobl yr ydych yn rhoi mynediad iddynt i addysg a hyfforddiant gael swyddi? Dyna’r cwestiwn sylfaenol. 

In terms of the Liberal Democrats, is there anything in this budget that will allow the people to whom you are giving access to training and education to get jobs? That is the fundamental question.

Jenny Rathbone: Do you think that your leader’s intervention describing the Welsh economy as ‘on its knees’ helps Welsh businesses?

Jenny Rathbone: A ydych yn meddwl bod ymyriad eich arweinydd yn disgrifio economi Cymru fel un sydd ‘ar ei gliniau’ yn helpu busnesau o Gymru? 

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: It is a question of reality, is it not?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Onid ydyw yn fater o realiti?

Jenny Rathbone: It is.

Jenny Rathbone: Ydy.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Presumably, you prefer to ignore the kind of economic pressures that are facing us at the moment, because this budget totally ignores the economic pressures that are facing us at the moment—there is no investment in the economy, no stimulus to the economy, no attempt to create jobs in Wales. We offered you a policy in Build for Wales that would allow an investment to create jobs and you refused it.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn cymryd y byddai’n well gennych anwybyddu’r math o bwysau economaidd yr ydym yn eu wynebu ar hyn o bryd, gan fod y gyllideb hon yn llwyr anwybyddu’r pwysau economaidd yr ydym yn eu wynebu ar hyn o bryd—nid oes dim buddsoddiad yn yr economi, dim ysgogiad i’r economi, dim ymdrech i greu swyddi yng Nghymru. Fe wnaethom gynnig polisi i chi yn Adeiladu i Gymru a fyddai’n galluogi buddsoddiad i greu swyddi, ac fe’i gwrthodoch.

Joyce Watson and Jenny Rathbone rose—

Joyce Watson a Jenny Rathbone a gododd—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Please take your seats.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Eisteddwch i lawr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: There are several people who want to intervene now, but I think that I am running out of time.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Mae nifer o bobl eisiau ymyrryd erbyn hyn, ond yr wyf yn meddwl fy mod yn rhedeg allan o amser.

The Presiding Officer: You are. [Laughter.]

Y Llywydd: Ydych. [Chwerthin.]

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I am quite happy to take interventions all afternoon. However, the Government has to face a simple question: is this budget geared towards facing the economic situation in Wales at the moment? Is the budget about creating jobs, investment or about giving hope to the people of Wales in this particular situation? Unfortunately, the answer is, ‘No, it is business as usual’. This situation is not business as usual—it is a situation that requires a Government that is prepared to face the situation and prepared to put a budget before us that would enable us to give the people of Wales some hope.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn ddigon bodlon derbyn ymyriadau drwy’r prynhawn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth wynebu cwestiwn syml: a yw’r gyllideb hon wedi ei bwriadu i wynebu’r sefyllfa economaidd yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd? A yw’r gyllideb yn ymwneud â chreu swyddi, buddsoddiad neu gynnig gobaith i bobl Cymru yn y sefyllfa benodol hon? Yn anffodus, yr ateb yw, ‘Na, busnes fel arfer yw hi’. Nid yw’r sefyllfa hon yn fusnes fel arfer—mae’n sefyllfa lle mae gofyn am Lywodraeth sy’n barod i wynebu’r sefyllfa a pharod i roi cyllideb ger ein bron a fydd yn ein galluogi i roi rhywfaint o obaith i bobl Cymru.

Janet Finch-Saunders: I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate. Despite certain recent alliances, I wish to reassure the people of Wales that it is the Welsh Conservatives who will continue to fight for what is fair and what is right.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon. Er gwaethaf rhai cynghreiriau diweddar, hoffwn dawelu meddwl pobl Cymru mai’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig a fydd yn parhau i frwydro dros beth sy’n deg a beth sy’n iawn.

We are now in a situation where hardworking families in the rest of the United Kingdom will benefit from a freeze in council tax. The United Kingdom Government has given £38 million to the Welsh Government to freeze council tax in Wales, yet it has failed to pass this money on to our council tax payers.

Yr ydym bellach mewn sefyllfa lle mae teuluoedd sy’n gweithio’n galed yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Unedig yn elwa o rewi’r dreth gyngor. Cafodd Llywodraeth Cymru £38 miliwn gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig i rewi’r dreth gyngor yng Nghymru, ond nid yw wedi llwyddo i drosglwyddo’r arian hwnnw i’n trethdalwyr cyngor.

Julie James: Will you take an intervention?

Julie James: A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Janet Finch-Saunders: No. In the interests of transparency and accountability, I feel that this money should be used as it was intended. Despite the Welsh Government being given this money by the United Kingdom Government to freeze council tax—that is what the money was for—Welsh families and pensioners will suffer from yet another squeeze on incomes. Research by the Welsh Conservatives shows that average band D council tax has risen by a staggering 135 per cent since Labour took over the responsibility for council tax levels in 1997.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Na. Er mwyn bod yn dryloyw ac atebol, teimlaf y dylai’r arian hwnnw gael ei ddefnyddio fel y’i bwriadwyd. Er bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael yr arian gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig i rewi’r dreth gyngor—dyna beth oedd bwriad yr arian—bydd incwm teuluoedd a phensiynwyr o Gymru yn cael ei wasgu drachefn. Dengys ymchwil gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig fod treth gyngor band D cyfartalog wedi cynyddu’n ddychrynllyd o 135 y cant ers i Lafur gymryd yr awenau dros lefelau treth gyngor yn 1997.  

Peter Black rose—

Peter Black a gododd—

The Presiding Officer: Are you taking an intervention?

Y Llywydd: A ydych yn derbyn ymyriad?

Janet Finch-Saunders: No. Moreover, the rate of council tax increase in Wales is 26 per cent higher than the rate of increase in England. We need to stem the rising tide of council tax in Wales, and our party remains committed to freezing council tax. The money that has been mooted in the budget regarding economic development, as my colleague Nick Ramsay mentioned, has been mentioned twice and is money that has been rebranded, repackaged and gift-wrapped at an appropriate time to disguise the fact that it has come from the United Kingdom Government.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Na. Ar ben hynny, mae’r cynnydd yn y dreth gyngor yng Nghymru 26 y cant yn uwch na’r cynnydd yn Lloegr. Mae angen i ni atal y cynnydd yn y dreth gyngor yng Nghymru, ac mae ein plaid yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i rewi’r dreth gyngor. Mae sôn wedi bod ddwywaith am yr arian y cyfeiriwyd ato yn y gyllideb o ran datblygu economaidd, fel y soniodd fy nghyd-Aelod Nick Ramsay, sy’n arian a gafodd ei ailfrandio, ailbecynnu a’i lapio fel anrheg ar adeg briodol er mwyn cuddio’r ffaith ei fod wedi dod gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig.  

While I welcome the slight reprieve on the business rates, this budget does not go anywhere near far enough to support our small businesses. How sad is it that Wales is now in the bottom three out of 12 of the United Kingdom league table of business start-up rates? Support to help small businesses to develop should always be at the top of any budget agenda. The Federation of Small Businesses says that business rates, rent and wage bills are the largest outgoings that small businesses face. Help with business rates, an effective tool that the Welsh Government has at its disposal, would ensure that our small businesses can focus on expansion, staff training and improving their business for the benefit of the Welsh economy, but you have only given our business fraternity a slight reprieve. That is why the Welsh Conservatives are committed to the abolition of business rates for small businesses with a rateable value of up to £12,000. When you consider the positives that have come out of the autumn statement by the UK Government, there is £216 million and revenue, as Mark Isherwood has indicated, that could go some way to help in that initiative.

Er fy mod yn croesawu’r saib bach o ran ardrethi busnes, nid yw’r gyllideb hon yn mynd hanner ddigon pell i gefnogi ein busnesau bach. Mae’n drist iawn fod Cymru ymysg y tri gwaelod allan o 12 yn nhabl cynghrair y Deyrnas Unedig ar gyfer cyfraddau dechrau busnes. Dylai cefnogaeth i helpu busnesau bach i ddatblygu fod ar frig agenda unrhyw gyllideb bob amser. Dywed y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach mai ardrethi busnes, rhent a biliau cyflog yw’r costau mwyaf sydd gan fusnesau bach. Byddai help gydag ardrethi busnes, dull effeithiol sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru, yn sicrhau bod ein busnesau bach yn gallu canolbwyntio ar ehangu, hyfforddi staff a gwella eu busnes er budd economi Cymru, ond dim ond saib bach a roesoch i’n cymuned fusnes. Dyna pam fod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi ymrwymo i ddiddymu ardrethi busnes ar gyfer busnesau bach sydd â gwerth trethadwy hyd at £12,000. Pan ystyriwch yr agweddau positif a ddaeth o ddatganiad yr hydref gan Lywodraeth y DU, mae £216 miliwn a refeniw, fel y dywedodd Mark Isherwood, a allai fynd rywfaint o’r ffordd i helpu’r fenter honno.  

Yet again, it is the Welsh Conservatives that reinforce the need to invest in health services for the people of Wales. Unfortunately, healthcare in Wales falls well short of what we would like to see. A 6.5 per cent real-terms cut in the health budget by the parties opposite will clearly not resolve this. In our alternative budget in 2010, the Welsh Conservatives set out how we would have protected health spending in real terms to 2014-15.

Unwaith yn rhagor, y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig sy’n atgyfnerthu’r angen i fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau iechyd ar gyfer pobl Cymru. Yn anffodus, mae gofal iechyd yng Nghymru yn brin iawn o’r hyn yr hoffem ei weld. Mae’n amlwg na fydd toriad 6.5 y cant mewn termau real i’r gyllideb iechyd gan y pleidiau gyferbyn yn datrys hyn. Yn ein cyllideb amgen yn 2010, amlinellodd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig sut y byddem wedi diogelu gwariant iechyd mewn termau real hyd at 2014-15.

Welsh Labour’s complacency and disregard of the McKinsey report means that it has failed to tackle the rising demands on the Welsh NHS early on. A year ago last month, the First Minister assured Wales that enough money was available for the health service for the next three years. This year, it has already had to inject an emergency £288 million into health services.

Mae hunan-fodlonrwydd a difaterwch Llafur Cymru am adroddiad McKinsey yn golygu ei fod wedi methu mynd i’r afael yn gynnar â’r galwadau cynyddol ar GIG Cymru. Flwyddyn yn ôl i fis diwethaf, sicrhaodd y Prif Weinidog fod gan Gymru ddigon o arian ar gael i’r gwasanaeth iechyd am y tair blynedd nesaf. Eleni, mae eisoes wedi gorfod rhoi £288 miliwn ar frys i’r gwasanaethau iechyd.

3.45 p.m.

How does the Welsh Labour Government think that the health service can continue to cope when facing such large cuts in spending on health? The McKinsey report warned that a £1.9 billion funding gap would open up in health spending by 2014 due to increased demand, ageing, cost inflation and a reduction in spending. Labour has chosen to ignore those warnings, and the McKinsey report as a whole.

Sut mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn credu y gall y gwasanaeth iechyd barhau i ymdopi pan fydd yn wynebu toriadau mawr o’r fath yn y gwariant ar iechyd? Rhybuddiodd adroddiad McKinsey y byddai bwlch cyllido o £1.9 biliwn yn agor mewn gwariant ar iechyd erbyn 2014, oherwydd galw cynyddol, heneiddio, chwyddiant costau a gostyngiad mewn gwariant. Mae Llafur wedi dewis anwybyddu’r rhybuddion hynny, ac adroddiad McKinsey yn ei chyfanrwydd.

Our ageing population in Wales means that we have to refocus our health services to care for that change in demographic. We have already highlighted the issues surrounding dementia care in Wales in the Chamber this year. We have examined the need for more specialist nurses and occupational therapists and the need for an integrated, co-ordinated communications system across health and social services. Those have not been purely the concerns of the Welsh Conservatives, but were, at one point, across the parties in the Chamber—

Mae ein poblogaeth sy’n heneiddio yng Nghymru yn golygu bod yn rhaid inni ail-ganolbwyntio ein gwasanaethau iechyd i ofalu am y newid hwnnw o ran demograffig. Yr ydym eisoes wedi amlygu’r materion ynghylch gofal dementia yng Nghymru yn y Siambr eleni. Rydym wedi ystyried yr angen am fwy o nyrsys arbenigol a therapyddion galwedigaethol a’r angen am system gyfathrebu integredig a chydgysylltiedig ar draws iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Nid pryderon Ceidwadwyr Cymru yn unig yw’r rheiny, ond roeddent, ar un adeg, ar draws y pleidiau yn y Siambr—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Will you wind up, please?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?

Janet Finch-Saunders: The Welsh Conservatives have presented the case for a cancer drugs fund, and a national cancer plan. The £3.3 million cost—

Janet Finch-Saunders: Mae Ceidwadwyr Cymru wedi cyflwyno’r achos dros gronfa cyffuriau canser, a chynllun canser cenedlaethol. Mae’r gost o £3.3 miliwn—

The Presiding Officer: Order. I meant for you to finish. Your time is up; wind up immediately.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Yr oeddwn yn golygu i chi orffen. Mae’ch amser ar ben; dewch i ben ar unwaith.

Janet Finch-Saunders: What about the health of our people? The people of Wales, who deserve the very best from their Government—

Janet Finch-Saunders: Beth am iechyd ein pobl? Mae pobl Cymru, sy’n haeddu’r gorau gan eu Llywodraeth—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Your microphone is now switched off. I call on the Minister to reply to the debate.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Mae’ch meicroffon bellach wedi’i ddiffodd. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog i ymateb i’r ddadl.

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): This is an important debate. As Lynne Neagle said, the Welsh Government has heavy responsibilities in setting the budget today. That heavy responsibility also lies with every Member in the Chamber today. It was disappointing, but perhaps not surprising, that the Welsh Conservatives have decided not to play their part in recognising the challenges that we face, apart from Mark Isherwood—I was glad to hear—who welcomed the social housing uplift that we made with the £38.9 million economic stimulus package. It was disappointing that Paul Davies did not welcome the business rate relief announcement that I made in my opening statement this afternoon. I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury earlier this year to say that we would like the business rate relief package to be extended, and described the impact that that would have on small businesses, as recognised by Alun Ffred Jones and Plaid Cymru Members. I hope that the Welsh Conservatives will now also welcome that.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig. Fel y dywedodd Lynne Neagle, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyfrifoldebau trwm wrth osod y gyllideb heddiw. Mae gan bob Aelod yn y Siambr heddiw’r cyfrifoldeb trwm hwnnw hefyd. Yr oedd yn siomedig, ond efallai ddim yn syndod, bod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi penderfynu peidio â chwarae eu rhan wrth gydnabod yr heriau a wynebwn, ar wahân i Mark Isherwood—yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed—a groesawodd y codiad i dai cymdeithasol a wnaethom gyda’r pecyn ysgogi economaidd gwerth £38.9 miliwn. Roedd yn siomedig nad oedd Paul Davies wedi croesawu’r cyhoeddiad rhyddhad ardrethi busnes a wneuthum yn fy natganiad agoriadol y prynhawn yma. Cyfarfûm â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys yn gynharach eleni i ddweud y byddwn yn hoffi gweld y pecyn rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yn cael ei ymestyn, a disgrifiwyd yr effaith a gâi hynny ar fusnesau bach, fel y cydnabyddwyd gan Alun Ffred Jones ac Aelodau Plaid Cymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig hefyd yn croesawu hynny bellach.

Of course this is a budget about priorities: it is a budget where we have had to balance social justice and economic recovery and renewal. The Welsh Conservatives’ justification for voting against the budget for growth and jobs appears to be very thin indeed. It would not impress those who would have lost out if the Welsh Government and the Assembly had considered the Welsh Conservatives’ budget proposals of last year. It is worth reminding ourselves what those proposals were. Last year, the Welsh Conservatives wanted to inflict a 30 per cent cut on the economy department’s budget, a 20 per cent cut on spending on education, a 25 per cent cut on environment, sustainability and social housing, and they wanted to abolish Communities First—cutting the funding to our most deprived and disadvantaged communities.

Wrth gwrs mae hon yn gyllideb am flaenoriaethau: mae’n gyllideb lle yr ydym wedi gorfod sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac adnewyddu ac adfywio economaidd. Mae cyfiawnhad y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am bleidleisio yn erbyn y gyllideb ar gyfer twf a swyddi yn ymddangos yn denau iawn. Ni fyddai’n creu argraff ar y rheiny a fyddai wedi colli allan os oedd y Cynulliad a Llywodraeth Cymru’n ystyried cynigion cyllideb y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y llynedd. Mae’n werth atgoffa ein hunain beth oedd y cynigion hynny. Y llynedd, roedd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am wneud toriad o 30 y cant ar gyllideb adran yr economi, toriad o 20 y cant ar wariant ar addysg, toriad o 25 y cant ar yr amgylchedd, cynaliadwyedd a thai cymdeithasol, ac roeddent am ddiddymu Cymunedau’n Gyntaf—cwtogi ar gyllid i’n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig.

However, this year, Paul Davies said that they were committed to working with other parties in the interest of obtaining a budget that helps and supports communities the length and breadth of our country. This year, the Conservatives called on us to use the £38.9 million economic stimulus package, which we received from the UK Government, to freeze council tax—Janet Finch-Saunders has referred to it—despite the fact that our council tax bills are 20 per cent lower than those in England. Last year, they wanted us to cut the budget for local government communities departments by 12.5 per cent, recognising that that cut in funding would have pushed council tax bills up, if we had even considered debating the Welsh Conservatives’ budget of last year. How does that, as Paul Davies said, do what is required to meet the needs of the people of Wales? As Mike Hedges said and the auditor general recognised, our local government settlement, which will be tabled by the Minister tomorrow, is the fairest settlement among those of all the administrations in the UK.

Fodd bynnag, eleni, dywedodd Paul Davies eu bod yn ymrwymedig i weithio gyda’r pleidiau eraill er mwyn cael cyllideb sy’n helpu a chefnogi cymunedau ar hyd a lled ein gwlad. Eleni, galwodd y Ceidwadwyr arnom i ddefnyddio’r pecyn ysgogi economaidd gwerth £38.9 miliwn, a ddaeth i law gan Lywodraeth y DU, i rewi’r dreth gyngor— cyfeiriodd Janet Finch-Saunders ato—er gwaethaf y ffaith bod ein biliau treth gyngor 20 y cant yn is na’r rhai yn Lloegr. Y llynedd, roeddent am dorri'r gyllideb ar gyfer adrannau cymunedau llywodraeth leol gan 12.5 y cant, gan gydnabod y byddai’r toriad hwnnw yn yr arian wedi gwthio biliau treth gyngor i fyny, os byddem hyd yn oed wedi ystyried dadlau cyllideb y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y llynedd. Sut y mae hynny, fel y dywedodd Paul Davies, yn gwneud yr hyn sy’n ofynnol i ddiwallu anghenion pobl Cymru? Fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges ac y gwnaeth yr archwilydd cyffredinol ei gydnabod, ein setliad llywodraeth leol ni, a gyflwynir gan y Gweinidog yfory, yw’r setliad tecaf ymhlith y rheiny o bob gweinyddiaeth yn y DU.

I want to move to the issue of the national health service and respond to the Welsh Conservatives on this point. Despite the fact that the Welsh Government’s budget is being massively cut by the Conservative-led UK Government in London, we are increasing investment in the NHS in cash terms by 2.3 per cent next year, 2012-13, over previous plans outlined in last year’s budget. That is an increase of nearly £124 million. That is as a result of us looking at and listening to the concerns raised during scrutiny surrounding the NHS. I also repeat my commitment to the leader of Plaid Cymru to come back and account for and respond to issues in terms of pressures on the NHS. The overall NHS delivery budget will rise from the level set in last year’s budget by more than 2 per cent in 2012-13 and 2013-14, with a similar level of additional investment in 2014-15. This is about us responding to the pressures, injecting additional resources on a recurrent basis as well as time-limited support for transition while looking at the NHS’s record of delivering efficiencies. Let us look at those additional allocations. In this budget, we are investing an additional £239 million to place the NHS on a sustainable financial footing and £48.5 million to increase capacity to deal with a significant increase in the demand for orthopaedic treatment.

Yr wyf am symud at y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol ac ymateb i’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar y pwynt hwn. Er gwaethaf y ffaith bod  cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru’n cael ei thorri’n aruthrol gan Lywodraeth y DU dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr yn Llundain, rydym yn cynyddu’r buddsoddiad yn y GIG mewn termau arian parod gan 2.3 y cant y flwyddyn nesaf, 2012-13, dros gynlluniau blaenorol a amlinellir yng nghyllideb y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae hynny’n gynnydd o bron £124 miliwn. Mae hynny o ganlyniad i edrych a gwrando ar y pryderon a godwyd yn ystod craffu ynghylch y GIG. Hefyd, ailadroddaf fy ymrwymiad i arweinydd Plaid Cymru i ddod yn ôl a chyfrif am ac ymateb i faterion o ran pwysau ar y GIG. Bydd cyllideb gyflawni’r GIG gyffredinol yn codi o’r lefel a bennwyd yn y gyllideb y llynedd gan fwy na 2 y cant yn 2012-13 a 2013-14, gyda lefel debyg o fuddsoddiad ychwanegol yn 2014-15. Hanfod hyn yw ein bod yn ymateb i’r pwysau, rhoi adnoddau ychwanegol ar sail gylchol yn ogystal â chefnogaeth gyfyngedig o ran amser ar gyfer pontio tra’n edrych ar record y GIG o sicrhau arbedion effeithlonrwydd. Gadewch inni edrych ar y dyraniadau ychwanegol hynny. Yn y gyllideb hon, yr ydym yn buddsoddi £239 miliwn ychwanegol er mwyn rhoi’r GIG ar sylfaen ariannol gynaliadwy a £48.5 miliwn i gynyddu’r capasiti i ddelio â chynnydd sylweddol yn y galw am driniaeth orthopedig.

It is important, in responding to the leader of Plaid Cymru, to recognise that we have made strides and that we have listened in terms of scrutiny and the opportunity to respond to the worsening economic situation that we all face, which has particularly worsened since our February budget. We have not only sought to maintain investment in vital public services, but continued to invest in economic measures. We have worked with our partners across Wales to ensure that we maximise our capital expenditure. We have switched revenue resources to capital and we have made significant progress in finding other innovative ways to boost capital expenditure that will see us using all the levers available to us. We will develop the Wales infrastructure investment plan on which I updated Members recently. Through the plan, we will make clear what we are spending, where we are spending it and what we will spend it on. That will be a mechanism to assist us in prioritising our investment. It will be important for the private sector, which will also want to know that we are a responsible Assembly delivering a plan that enables it to have clarity for its investment decisions.

Mae’n bwysig, wrth ymateb i arweinydd Plaid Cymru, i gydnabod ein bod wedi cymryd camau a’n bod wedi gwrando o ran craffu a’r cyfle i ymateb i’r sefyllfa economaidd sy’n gwaethygu yr ydym oll yn ei hwynebu, sydd wedi gwaethygu’n enwedig ers ein cyllideb ym mis Chwefror. Nid yn unig yr ydym wedi ceisio cynnal buddsoddiad mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol, ond rydym yn parhau i fuddsoddi mewn mesurau economaidd. Rydym wedi gweithio gyda’n partneriaid ledled Cymru i sicrhau ein bod yn manteisio i’r eithaf ar ein gwariant cyfalaf. Yr ydym wedi symud adnoddau refeniw i gyfalaf ac rydym wedi gwneud cynnydd sylweddol o ran dod o hyd i ffyrdd arloesol eraill i hybu gwariant cyfalaf a fydd yn ein gweld yn defnyddio’r holl ysgogiadau sydd ar gael inni. Byddwn yn datblygu’r cynllun buddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru, a rhoddais ddiweddariad i Aelodau ar hynny’n ddiweddar. Drwy’r cynllun, byddwn yn ei gwneud yn glir beth yr ydym yn ei wario, lle y caiff ei wario ac ar beth y caiff ei wario. Bydd hynny’n fecanwaith i’n helpu i flaenoriaethu ein buddsoddiad. Bydd yn bwysig i’r sector preifat, a fydd hefyd eisiau gwybod ein bod yn Gynulliad cyfrifol yn cyflwyno cynllun sy’n ei alluogi i gael eglurder ar gyfer ei benderfyniadau buddsoddi.

In addition, there are opportunities to provide that uplift for enterprise zones in the economic stimulus package and also to provide an offer to young recruits in terms of the further 1,800 apprenticeship places that we have. I recognise that Alun Ffred Jones referred clearly and understandably to the pressures facing small businesses, but we also know how much the construction sector values the fact that we are investing a further £1.4 billion in our twenty-first century schools programme. We saw that investment in his constituency, where a school is being rebuilt with Welsh Government money and support from Gwynedd Council, and construction workers and apprentices are benefiting, which will benefit the community and the local businesses in that supply chain.

Yn ogystal, ceir cyfleoedd i ddarparu’r cynnydd hwnnw ar gyfer ardaloedd menter yn y pecyn ysgogi economaidd a hefyd i ddarparu cynnig i recriwtiaid ifanc o ran y 1,800 o leoedd prentisiaeth sydd gennym. Cydnabyddaf y cyfeiriodd Alun Ffred Jones yn glir ac yn ddealladwy at y pwysau sy’n wynebu busnesau bach, ond gwyddom hefyd faint mae’r sector adeiladu yn gwerthfawrogi’r ffaith ein bod yn buddsoddi £1.4 biliwn yn ein rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Gwelsom y buddsoddiad hwnnw yn ei etholaeth, lle mae ysgol yn cael ei hailadeiladu gydag arian Llywodraeth Cymru a chymorth gan Gyngor Gwynedd, ac mae gweithwyr adeiladu a phrentisiaid yn elwa, a fydd o fudd i’r gymuned a busnesau lleol yn y gadwyn gyflenwi honno.

We have spent the last two months talking to a range of partners about how we can best respond to the challenges that we face. We spent a large portion of that time listening and consulting, and I thank all the parties in the Assembly for the way in which they have engaged in this work. I have to say that 99 per cent of this budget reflects the allocations that were made to the Welsh Government as approved in February’s budget. Rhodri Glyn Thomas made that point following the spending review. Therefore, there has been little room for manoeuvre in terms of this budget, but we have been determined, as a Welsh Government, to deliver on our programme for government, with a budget for growth and jobs that delivers those opportunities for our young people. Each year, 4,000 young people will benefit from Jobs Growth Wales.

Yr ydym wedi treulio’r ddau fis diwethaf yn siarad ag amrywiaeth o bartneriaid yn sôn am y ffordd orau y gallwn ymateb i’r heriau sy’n ein hwynebu. Gwnaethom dreulio cyfran helaeth o’r amser hwnnw’n gwrando ac yn ymgynghori, a diolchaf i’r holl bleidiau yn y Cynulliad am y ffordd y maent wedi cymryd rhan yn y gwaith hwn. Rhaid imi ddweud bod 99 y cant o’r gyllideb hon yn adlewyrchu’r dyraniadau a wnaed i Lywodraeth Cymru fel y cymeradwywyd yng nghyllideb mis Chwefror. Gwnaeth Rhodri Glyn Thomas y pwynt hwnnw yn dilyn yr adolygiad gwariant. Felly, bu ychydig o le i symud o ran y gyllideb hon, ond yr ydym yn benderfynol, fel Llywodraeth Cymru, i gyflawni ein rhaglen lywodraethu, gyda chyllideb ar gyfer twf a swyddi sy’n darparu’r cyfleoedd hynny ar gyfer ein pobl ifanc. Bob blwyddyn, bydd 4,000 o bobl ifanc yn elwa o Dwf Swyddi Cymru.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Will you take an intervention?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A gymerwch chi ymyriad?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I am grateful, Minister, that you have accepted the intervention. I accept the point that you are making, that there is little room within the budget itself to make changes. However, do you accept the point that Gerry Holtham and others have made, that you can use money from within the budget to draw down additional money that could make a considerable difference? Have you considered our Build for Wales policy? If you refuse that, do you have another option that you are going to put before us?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Rwyf yn ddiolchgar, Weinidog, eich bod wedi derbyn yr ymyriad. Derbyniaf y pwynt yr ydych yn ei wneud, bod ychydig o le o fewn y gyllideb ei hun i wneud newidiadau. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaed gan Gerry Holtham ac eraill, y gallwch ddefnyddio arian o fewn y gyllideb i dynnu i lawr arian ychwanegol a allai wneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol? A ydych wedi ystyried ein polisi Adeiladu i Gymru? Os ydych yn gwrthod hynny, a oes gennych opsiwn arall yr ydych yn mynd i’w roi ger ein bron?

Jane Hutt: I fully endorse every point that you have made, Rhodri Glyn, because not only is Gerry Holtham coming in to help us, as you know, to deliver on the Wales infrastructure investment plan, but he is also going to work with and, I am sure, engage with you as well, in terms of opportunities for innovative funding vehicles. In fact, I am meeting the Scottish Minister for Transport and Infrastructure on Thursday to discuss the ways in which they are going forward. We can learn from Scotland, as we are in terms of housing opportunities and levering in private finance, and also making sure that the local authorities assisted borrowing route, which Carl Sargeant and I are now progressing, and which was welcomed yesterday at the local government partnership council, is being taken forward.

Jane Hutt: Cymeradwyaf yn llawn bob pwynt a wnaethpwyd gennych, Rhodri Glyn, oherwydd nid yn unig y mae Gerry Holtham yn dod i’n helpu ni, fel y gwyddoch, i gyflawni ar gynllun buddsoddi seilwaith Cymru, ond mae hefyd yn mynd i weithio gyda ac, yr wyf yn siŵr, ymgysylltu â chi yn ogystal, o ran cyfleoedd ar gyfer dulliau ariannu arloesol. Yn wir, rwy’n cyfarfod Gweinidog Trafnidiaeth a Seilwaith yr Alban ddydd Iau i drafod y ffyrdd y maent yn symud ymlaen. Gallwn ddysgu o’r Alban, fel yr ydym yn ei wneud o ran cyfleoedd tai a denu cyllid preifat, a hefyd gwneud yn siŵr bod llwybr benthyca gyda chymorth yr awdurdodau lleol, y mae Carl Sargeant a minnau bellach yn bwrw ymlaen ag ef, ac a groesawyd ddoe yng nghyngor partneriaeth llywodraeth leol, yn cael ei gymryd ymlaen.

So, it is important that we recognise that, with the little room for manoeuvre that we had, and with that openness in consultation, we have reached a point where, with the support of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, we have delivered a pupil deprivation grant that I cannot believe anyone in this Chamber would not sign up to. This money is going to the poorest pupils in the schools in the constituencies of Members across the whole of the Chamber. In terms of being held to account, I say quite clearly to Peter Black, Kirsty Williams, Paul Davies and Ieuan Wyn Jones, yes, we will be held to account for this budget.

Felly, mae’n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod, gyda’r ychydig o le i symud a gawsom, a chyda’r ymgynghoriad agored hwnnw, ein bod wedi cyrraedd pwynt lle, gyda chefnogaeth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, yr ydym wedi cyflawni grant amddifadedd disgyblion na allaf gredu na fyddai unrhyw un yn y Siambr hon yn cytuno ag ef. Mae’r arian hwn yn mynd i’r disgyblion tlotaf yn yr ysgolion yn etholaethau Aelodau ledled y Siambr. O ran cael ein dwyn i gyfrif, dywedaf yn glir wrth Peter Black, Kirsty Williams, Paul Davies ac Ieuan Wyn Jones, cawn, cawn ein dal i gyfrif ar gyfer y gyllideb hon.

Finally, Aneurin Bevan said in 1952 in his book, In Place of Fear,

Yn olaf, dywedodd Aneurin Bevan yn 1952 yn ei lyfr, In Place of Fear,

‘Parliamentary democracy is essentially government by discussion. But if discussion is not quickly followed by resolute and decisive action, then the vitality of democracy declines. If the deed follows too tardily on the word then the word turns sour.’

‘Democratiaeth seneddol, yn ei hanfod, yw llywodraethu drwy drafodaeth. Ond os na ddilynir trafodaeth yn gyflym gan weithredu penderfynol a phendant, yna mae bywiogrwydd democratiaeth yn dirywio. Os yw’r weithred yn dilyn y gair yn rhy hwyr, mae’r gair yn troi’n chwerw.’

I appeal to you today across this Chamber to back this budget for the people of Wales, the businesses of Wales, local government and the NHS. The deed now is for us to move this budget for approval.

Apeliaf arnoch heddiw ar draws y Siambr hon i gefnogi’r gyllideb hon ar gyfer pobl Cymru, busnesau Cymru, llywodraeth leol a’r GIG. Y weithred yn awr yw i ni symud y gyllideb hon i’w chymeradwyo.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I see that there are objections, and the motion is therefore deferred until voting time.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw i gytuno ar y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Gwelaf fod gwrthwynebiadau, ac felly caiff y cynnig ei ohirio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies and amendment 2 in the name of Peter Black.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies a gwelliant 2 yn enw Peter Black.

Cynnig NDM4871 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4871 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn ystyried Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru ar Reoli Tybaco;

1. Considers the draft Tobacco Control Action Plan for Wales;

2. Yn nodi amcanion y cynllun sef:

2. Notes its aims to:

a) lleihau’r niwed i iechyd y cyhoedd a achosir gan ysmygu yng Nghymru, yn arbennig amddiffyn plant rhag effeithiau niweidiol tybaco; a

a) reduce the harm to public health caused by smoking in Wales, in particular protecting children from the harmful effects of tobacco; and

b) lleihau amlder ysmygu yn ein cymunedau mwyaf amddifad gan fod ysmygu yn un o brif achosion y bwlch mewn disgwyliad oes rhwng pobl gyfoethog a phobl dlawd; ac

b) reduce smoking prevalence amongst our most deprived communities as it is a leading cause for the gap in life expectancy between rich and poor; and

3. Yn nodi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried cyflwyno deddfwriaeth, os dengys tystiolaeth fod yr ymgyrch i ostwng ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cario pobl ifanc dan oed yn methu â sicrhau gostyngiad sylweddol yn y graddau y mae pobl yn dod i gysylltiad â mwg ail-law.

3. Notes that the Welsh Government will consider bringing forward legislation, if evidence shows the campaign to reduce smoking in cars carrying minors fails to achieve a significant reduction in exposure to second-hand smoke.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I move the motion.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

I fully support the motion presented at Plenary today. Smoking is the major leading preventable cause of illness and premature death in Wales, causing around 6,000 deaths each year. Reducing the number of smokers in Wales has been a great public health success, from post-war levels of over 80 per cent of adult men to around a quarter of the population today. Due to the success of the 2007 ban on smoking in all enclosed public places and workplaces, fewer people in Wales are exposed to second-hand smoke. These shifts in smoking patterns have saved lives, reduced heart disease, cancers and a range of other adverse health outcomes for both adults and children. They have reduced the burden of illness for individuals, families and communities and saved costs for the NHS and the wider economy. 

Cefnogaf yn llwyr y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Ysmygu yw’r prif achos blaenllaw ataliadwy o salwch a marwolaeth gynamserol yng Nghymru, gan achosi tua 6,000 o farwolaethau bob blwyddyn. Mae lleihau nifer yr ysmygwyr yng Nghymru wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr o ran iechyd cyhoeddus, o lefelau ar ôl y rhyfel o dros 80 y cant o ddynion i tua chwarter o’r boblogaeth heddiw. Oherwydd llwyddiant gwaharddiad 2007 ar ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus caeedig a gweithleoedd, mae llai o bobl yng Nghymru yn agored i fwg ail-law. Mae’r newidiadau hyn mewn patrymau ysmygu wedi achub bywydau, lleihau clefyd y galon, canser ac ystod o ganlyniadau iechyd andwyol eraill o ran oedolion a phlant. Maent wedi lleihau’r baich salwch ar gyfer unigolion, teuluoedd a chymunedau ac wedi arbed costau ar gyfer y GIG a’r economi ehangach.

I am proud of what we have achieved so far; however, I believe that there is also a lot more work to be done, so the Welsh Government has developed a tobacco control action plan for Wales. We have worked closely with key stakeholders to consider how we can build on our existing programme of measures to discourage young people from starting to smoke, to support smokers who want to give up, and to promote smoke-free environments. 

Yr wyf yn falch o’r hyn a gyflawnwyd gennym hyd yma; fodd bynnag, credaf hefyd fod llawer mwy o waith i’w wneud, felly mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi datblygu cynllun gweithredu rheoli tybaco ar gyfer Cymru. Rydym wedi gweithio’n agos gyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol i ystyried sut y gallwn adeiladu ar ein rhaglen bresennol o fesurau i atal pobl ifanc rhag dechrau ysmygu, cefnogi ysmygwyr sydd am roi’r gorau iddi, a hyrwyddo amgylcheddau di-fwg.

The draft tobacco control action plan aims to drive down smoking prevalence levels to 16 per cent by 2020. I recognise that this is very challenging, but we need to protect our children from the harmful effects of tobacco, and reduce inequalities in health, as people living in our most disadvantaged communities are far more likely to smoke, which significantly lowers life expectancy.

Nod y cynllun gweithredu rheoli tybaco drafft yw lleihau lefelau mynychder ysmygu i 16 y cant erbyn 2020. Yr wyf yn cydnabod bod hyn yn heriol iawn, ond mae angen inni amddiffyn ein plant rhag effeithiau niweidiol tybaco, a lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd, gan fod pobl sy’n byw yn ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yn llawer mwy tebygol o ysmygu, sy’n gostwng disgwyliad oes yn sylweddol.

4.00 p.m.

A public consultation was held on the draft plan earlier this year, and a total of 79 responses were received from a variety of stakeholders. The majority of respondents supported the plan. Many welcomed the use of long-term, multi-tiered policies and programmes, and many endorsed the importance of engaging a variety of key stakeholders in tobacco control. The plan that I am presenting to you today has been revised following the consultation, and the actions amended in the light of the comments received.

Cynhaliwyd ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar y cynllun drafft yn gynharach eleni, a derbyniwyd cyfanswm o 79 o ymatebion gan amrywiaeth o randdeiliaid. Roedd mwyafrif yr ymatebwyr yn cefnogi’r cynllun. Croesawodd llawer y defnydd o bolisïau a rhaglenni hirdymor, amlhaenog, ac roedd llawer yn ategu pwysigrwydd cysylltu ag amrywiaeth o randdeiliaid allweddol ym maes rheoli tybaco. Adolygwyd y cynllun yr wyf yn ei gyflwyno i chi heddiw yn dilyn yr ymgynghoriad, a diwygiwyd y camau gweithredu yng ngoleuni’r sylwadau a dderbyniwyd.

The ultimate vision in the plan is for a smoke-free society for Wales, in which the harm from tobacco is eradicated. To achieve this vision, the plan focuses on four strategic areas: leadership in tobacco control; reducing the uptake of tobacco use, particularly among children and young people; reducing smoking prevalence levels; and reducing exposure to second-hand smoke. Leadership action will be necessary at all levels to drive forward change and reduce smoking prevalence levels. The action plan includes a commitment by the Welsh Government to establish a tobacco control delivery board, which will oversee the implementation of the plan. We are committed to taking strong action to reduce the uptake of tobacco, particularly among children and young people, given that we know that most smokers started by the time they are 13, and that young people can quickly develop a dependence on nicotine.

Y weledigaeth yn y pen draw yn y cynllun yw creu cymdeithas ddi-fwg yng Nghymru, lle mae’r niwed a achosir gan dybaco wedi’i ddileu. I gyflawni’r weledigaeth hon, mae’r cynllun yn canolbwyntio ar bedwar maes strategol: arweinyddiaeth ym maes rheoli tybaco; lleihau nifer y bobl sy’n defnyddio tybaco, yn enwedig plant a phobl ifanc; lleihau nifer y bobl sy’n ysmygu; a lleihau cysylltiad â mwg ail-law. Byd arweinyddiaeth yn angenrheidiol ar bob lefel i ysgogi newid a lleihau lefelau ysmygu. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu yn cynnwys ymrwymiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i sefydlu bwrdd cyflawni ar reoli tybaco, a fydd yn goruchwylio’r gwaith o weithredu’r cynllun. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gymryd camau cadarn i leihau’r defnydd o dybaco, yn enwedig ymysg plant a phobl ifanc, o ystyried ein bod yn gwybod bod y rhan fwyaf o ysmygwyr yn dechrau erbyn iddynt gyrraedd 13 oed, ac y gall pobl ifanc ddatblygu dibyniaeth ar nicotin yn gyflym.

The number of children and young people who smoke in Wales has, in fact, decreased significantly in the past decade. We can be proud of this achievement, but we can do even more to bring a smoke-free future for all of our children a step closer. The Welsh Government will continue to place pressure on the UK Government on non-devolved issues. The draft action plan recognises the influence that tobacco-related imagery has on encouraging young people to take up smoking. My officials have been working with the Department of Health to explore whether plain packaging of tobacco products has the potential to bring about a significant public health benefit.

Mae nifer y plant a phobl ifanc sy’n ysmygu yng Nghymru wedi, mewn gwirionedd, gostwng yn sylweddol yn y degawd diwethaf. Gallwn fod yn falch o’r llwyddiant hwn, ond gallwn wneud hyd yn oed mwy i ddod â dyfodol di-fwg ar gyfer ein holl blant gam yn agosach. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i roi pwysau ar Lywodraeth y DU ar faterion heb eu datganoli. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu drafft yn cydnabod y dylanwad y mae delweddau sy’n gysylltiedig â thybaco yn eu cael ar annog pobl ifanc i ddechrau ysmygu. Mae fy swyddogion wedi bod yn gweithio gyda’r Adran Iechyd i archwilio a fyddai gan becynnau plaen ar gyfer cynhyrchion tybaco y potensial i ddarparu budd iechyd cyhoeddus sylweddol.

The Welsh Government remains committed to making regulations to remove the display of tobacco products at the point of sale as soon as the legal challenge to equivalent regulations in England is resolved. That will build on our recent success in laying regulations to ban the sale of tobacco from vending machines, which will come into force next February. This legislation is an important part of our wider efforts to safeguard children and young people from the dangers of smoking.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i wneud rheoliadau i waredu’r arfer o arddangos cynnyrch tybaco mewn mannau gwerthu cyn gynted ag y bydd yr her gyfreithiol i reoliadau cyfatebol yn Lloegr yn cael ei datrys. Bydd hynny’n adeiladu ar ein llwyddiant diweddar wrth osod rheoliadau i wahardd gwerthu tybaco o beiriannau gwerthu, a fydd yn dod i rym fis Chwefror nesaf. Mae’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn rhan bwysig o’n hymdrechion ehangach i ddiogelu plant a phobl ifanc rhag beryglon ysmygu.

The plan details further action to protect the health of the public from the dangers of second-hand smoke. It reflects our manifesto commitment to consider amending the smoke-free regulations to ban smoking in areas of hospital grounds. It also reflects the concerns that the First Minister and I have about children still being exposed to second-hand smoke in cars. Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of smoking, and with no escape from second-hand smoke, they are more likely to develop long-term conditions such as asthma at an early age.

Mae’r cynllun yn amlinellu camau pellach i ddiogelu iechyd y cyhoedd rhag peryglon mwg ail-law. Mae’n adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad maniffesto i ystyried diwygio’r rheoliadau di-fwg i wahardd ysmygu ar dir ysbytai mewn mannau. Mae hefyd yn adlewyrchu pryderon y Prif Weinidog a minnau ynghylch plant sy’n dal i ddod i gysylltiad â mwg ail-law mewn ceir. Mae plant yn arbennig o agored i effeithiau ysmygu, a chan nad oes modd iddynt ddianc rhag mwg ail-law, maent yn fwy tebygol o ddatblygu cyflyrau hirdymor fel asthma yn ifanc.

Plaid Cymru asked for the motion to be amended so that it calls on the Welsh Government to introduce legislation in this Assembly term on smoking in cars carrying minors, rather than note that legislating will be considered. I oppose that amendment. The Welsh Government is already committed to launching a three-year media campaign in January to raise awareness of the dangers of smoking in cars carrying children. My officials will be evaluating data on children’s exposure to second-hand smoke throughout the campaign to enable me to assess reductions in exposure. We are committed to taking tough action, and if evidence shows the campaign to reduce smoking in cars carrying minors does not achieve a significant reduction in exposure to second-hand smoke, we will consider legislation during the current term.

Gofynnodd Plaid Cymru i’r cynnig gael ei ddiwygio fel ei fod yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad hwn ar ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cludo plant dan oed, yn hytrach na nodi y bydd deddfwriaeth yn cael ei hystyried. Yr wyf yn gwrthwynebu’r gwelliant hwnnw. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes wedi ymrwymo i lansio ymgyrch tair blynedd yn y cyfryngau ym mis Ionawr i godi ymwybyddiaeth o beryglon ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cludo plant. Bydd fy swyddogion yn gwerthuso data ar gysylltiad plant â mwg ail-law drwy gydol yr ymgyrch er mwyn fy ngalluogi i asesu gostyngiadau mewn cysylltiad. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gymryd camau llym, ac os dengys tystiolaeth nad yw’r ymgyrch i leihau ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cludo plant dan oed yn cyflawni gostyngiad sylweddol o ran cysylltiad â mwg ail-law, byddwn yn ystyried deddfwriaeth yn ystod y tymor presennol.

I support the Welsh Liberal Democrats’ amendment on improving the take-up of smoking cessation schemes to reduce the harm to public health caused by smoking. There are few healthcare interventions more associated with greater health gains than those supporting smoking cessation. The draft action plan highlights the importance of helping smokers to quit. The Welsh Government will commission an independent review of all smoking cessation activity in Wales, which will identify the improvements that could be made to existing cessation services and the further support necessary to assist attempts to quit. Easy access to effective, appropriate resources will be vital if we are to achieve the plan’s 16 per cent smoking prevalence target.

Yr wyf yn cefnogi gwelliant Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ar wella’r nifer sy’n manteisio ar gynlluniau i roi’r gorau i ysmygu er mwyn lleihau’r niwed i iechyd cyhoeddus a achosir gan ysmygu. Ceir ychydig o ymyriadau gofal iechyd sy’n fwy cysylltiedig â mwy o enillion iechyd na’r rhai sy’n cefnogi rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu.  Mae’r cynllun gweithredu drafft yn amlygu pwysigrwydd helpu ysmygwyr i roi’r gorau iddi. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n comisiynu adolygiad annibynnol o holl weithgarwch rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu yng Nghymru, a fydd yn nodi’r gwelliannau y gellid eu gwneud i wasanaethau presennol a’r cyngor pellach angenrheidiol i gynorthwyo ymdrechion i roi’r gorau iddi.  Bydd mynediad hawdd at adnoddau effeithiol a phriodol yn hanfodol os ydym i gyrraedd targed y cynllun o 16 y cant.

I want to see the proportion of smokers accessing NHS smoking cessation services in Wales increase to 5 per cent of the adult smoking population per annum, as recommended by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence. It is also important that greater support is available for smokers undergoing elective surgery. Health boards should increase the number of smokers receiving cessation support services prior to elective surgery to a minimum of 20 per cent.

Yr wyf am weld cyfran yr ysmygwyr sy’n defnyddio gwasanaethau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu’r GIG yn cynyddu yng Nghymru i 5 y cant bob blwyddyn ymhlith oedolion sy’n ysmygu, fel yr argymhellir gan y Sefydliad Cenedlaethol dros Iechyd a Rhagoriaeth Glinigol.  Mae hefyd yn bwysig bod mwy o gymorth ar gael i ysmygwyr sy’n cael llawdriniaeth ddewisol. Dylai byrddau iechyd gynyddu nifer yr ysmygwyr sy’n derbyn gwasanaethau cymorth cyn llawdriniaeth ddewisol i isafswm o 20 y cant.

The delivery of the plan will require a multi-sector approach, and there are a range of actions for key partners to implement. Public Health Wales will play a leading role in developing and implementing a systematic approach to training on brief intervention for smoking cessation for all health professionals, and will establish a comprehensive national smoking cessation database. At a local level, each local authority is tasked with developing a comprehensive tobacco control action plan and is being encouraged to introduce smoke-free policies for children’s playgrounds. Trading standards officers will continue test-purchasing exercises to tackle under-age sales, and local health boards are required to consider their own in-house smoking cessation services as well as those provided by pharmacies. Local health boards should also consider the advice given by dental providers.

Bydd cyflawni’r cynllun yn gofyn am ymagwedd amlsector, ac mae ystod o gamau gweithredu ar gyfer partneriaid allweddol i’w gweithredu. Bydd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn chwarae rhan flaenllaw wrth ddatblygu a gweithredu dull systematig o hyfforddiant ar ymyriadau byr ar gyfer rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu i bob gweithiwr proffesiynol iechyd, a bydd yn sefydlu cronfa ddata genedlaethol gynhwysfawr ar roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Ar lefel leol, mae pob awdurdod lleol yn cael y dasg o ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu cynhwysfawr ar reoli tybaco ac yn cael eu hannog i gyflwyno polisïau di-fwg ar gyfer meysydd chwarae plant. Bydd swyddogion safonau masnach yn parhau ymarferion prawf-brynu i fynd i’r afael â gwerthiannau dan oed, ac mae’n ofynnol i fyrddau iechyd lleol ystyried eu gwasanaethau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu eu hunain yn fewnol yn ogystal â’r rhai a ddarperir gan fferyllfeydd. Dylai byrddau iechyd lleol hefyd ystyried y cyngor a roddir gan ddarparwyr deintyddol.

I commend this tobacco control action plan for Wales. I hope that Members will support its aim of reducing the harm caused by smoking in Wales. In particular, I hope that it protects children and reduces inequalities in health.

Cymeradwyaf y cynllun gweithredu ar reoli tybaco ar gyfer Cymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau’n cefnogi ei nod o leihau’r niwed a achosir gan ysmygu yng Nghymru. Yn benodol, gobeithiaf ei fod yn amddiffyn plant a lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd.

Gwelliant 1 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 1 Jocelyn Davies

Ym mhwynt 3, dileu ‘Yn nodi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n ystyried cyflwyno deddfwriaeth’ a rhoi yn ei le ‘Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn y tymor Cynulliad hwn’.

In point 3 delete ‘Notes that the Welsh Government will consider bringing forward legislation’ and replace with ‘Calls on the Welsh Government to introduce legislation in this Assembly term’.

Elin Jones: Cynigiaf welliant 1 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Elin Jones: I move amendment 1 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Mae’r cynllun gweithredu yn llawn cynigion ymarferol i fynd i’r afael â’r amcanion i leihau nifer y bobl ifanc sy’n ysmygu, i leihau nifer yr oedolion sy’n ysmygu, a lleihau amlygiad i fwg ail-law. Fodd bynnag, mae’r heriau hyn yn parhau i fod yn sylweddol iawn. Mae’r targed i leihau nifer yr ysmygwyr yn y boblogaeth o 23 y cant i 20 y cant erbyn 2016, ac i 16 y cant erbyn 2020, yn sylweddol iawn. Yn ymarferol, mae hynny’n golygu y bydd o leiaf 140,000 yn llai o bobl yn ysmygu yn 2020 o gymharu â’r nifer presennol. Mae hynny’n ofyn sylweddol.

Today’s action plan is full of practical proposals to achieve the objective of reducing the number of young people who smoke, to reduce the number of adults who smoke, and to reduce second-hand smoke inhalation. However, the challenges continue to be significant ones. The target to reduce the number of smokers in the population from 23 per cent to 20 per cent by 2016, and to 16 per cent by 2020 is ambitious. On a practical level, it will mean 140,000 fewer smokers in 2020 as compared with the current figure. That is a big ask.

Yn ogystal â hynny, fel soniodd y Gweinidog, mae’r cynllun yn cynnwys targed i gynyddu canran yr ysmygwyr sy’n cymryd rhan mewn gwasanaethau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu i 5 y cant. Mae hyn yn golygu y bydd tua 28,000 o ysmygwyr yn cymryd rhan, ond a oes capasiti i ddarparu’r gwasanaeth hwn i 28,000 o bobl? Ar hyn o bryd, mae’r gwasanaeth rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu yn dilyn model sydd ag opsiynau cyfyng iawn ar gael i’r unigolyn. Nid yw mynychu sesiynau grŵp at ddant pawb, felly mae angen edrych ar ystod eang iawn o wasanaethau i gefnogi pobl sydd am roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Mae targedau’r cynllun hwn, felly, yn gymeradwy, er yn uchelgeisiol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r uchelgais yn gymeradwy, ac mae’r dyhead i weld llai o ysmygu ymhlith ein pobl ifanc a phobl mewn cymunedau tlotach—er mwyn lleihau’r anghyfartaledd iechyd sy’n cael ei achosi—hefyd yn gymeradwy.

In addition, as the Minister said, the plan contains a target to increase the number of smokers who participate in smoking cessation schemes to 5 per cent. That equates to the participation of some 28,000 people, but is there the capacity to provide this service to 28,000 people? At the moment, the smoking cessation service follows a model with limited options for the individual. Attending group sessions does not suit everyone, therefore we need to look at a broad range of services to support those who want to stop smoking. The action plan’s targets, therefore, are laudable, although ambitious. However, that ambition is also laudable, and the desire to see a reduction in the number of young people who smoke and people in poorer communities—in order to reduce the health inequalities that follow as a result of smoking—is also to be commended.

Mae tipyn yn gyffredin rhwng dyheadau Plaid Cymru a’r hyn sydd yng nghynllun gweithredu’r Llywodraeth, felly ni fyddaf yn ailadrodd pethau yn ormodol. Byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar rai o’r gwahaniaethau sydd yn ein blaenoriaethau. Yn gyntaf—ac mae ein gwelliant yn cyfeirio at hyn—mae Plaid Cymru yn credu y dylai’r Llywodraeth ddechrau yn awr ar y gwaith o ymgynghori ar wahardd ysmygu mewn ceir sydd â phlant yn teithio ynddynt. Mae arolwg ASH Cymru o fis Mawrth eleni yn dangos bod tua 80 y cant o bobl Cymru o blaid gwahardd ysmygu ceir sydd â phlant ynddynt. Mae’r dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd gan Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain yn ddiweddar yn nodi bod dwysedd y tocsinau mewn car sy’n cynnwys mwg oherwydd ysmygu 11 gwaith yn waeth nag y byddai mewn tŷ tafarn. Peidied neb â cheisio dweud bod hynny’n llesol i iechyd plentyn. Mae’n iawn, felly, i wladwriaeth ystyried ymyrryd i warchod iechyd y plentyn, nad yw mewn sefyllfa i warchod ei iechyd ei hun yn y sefyllfa honno. Nid oes gennyf amheuaeth y prynhawn yma y bydd ambell e-bost yn dod ataf yn beirniadu fy nghefnogaeth i ddeddfwriaeth wahardd o’r math hwn, gan fod rhai yn credu bod deddfwriaeth o’r fath yn ymyrryd â hawl yr unigolyn—yr oedolyn—i ysmygu. I mi, ac i Blaid Cymru, mae hawl y plentyn i gael mesurau i warchod ei iechyd goruwch hawl unrhyw oedolyn i ysmygu.

Plaid Cymru’s aspirations and the Government’s action plan have a lot in common, so I will not rehearse the arguments too much. I will concentrate on some of the differences that exist in our priorities. First—and our amendment refers to this—Plaid Cymru believes that the Government should open a consultation on banning smoking in cars carrying children now. The ASH Wales survey from March this year shows that some 80 per cent of people in Wales are in favour of banning smoking in cars carrying children. The evidence supplied by the British Medical Association recently notes that the intensity of toxins in a car containing cigarette smoke is 11 times worse than it would be in a pub. So, let no-one say that this does not harm a child’s health. It is right, therefore, that a state should consider intervening in order to protect the health of a child, who is not in a position to protect his or her own health in that situation. I have no doubt that I will receive an e-mail or two criticising my support for such banning legislation, because some people believe that this would interfere with the right of the individual—the adult—to smoke. For me, and for Plaid Cymru, the right of the child to measures to protect health is over and above the right of any adult to smoke.

Yn hyn o beth, gobeithiaf ein bod ni a’r Llywodraeth yn gytûn. Fodd bynnag, efallai fod gennym farn wahanol o ran amseriad y ddeddfwriaeth honno. Cred Plaid Cymru y gall y Llywodraeth gychwyn ar yr ymgynghori ar ddeddfwriaeth o’r fath yn awr. I mi, mae’n fwy o flaenoriaeth i warchod ein plant rhag mwg sigaréts mewn ceir na deddfu nawr ar wahardd tyllu croen ymysg pobl ifanc dan 16 oed.

In that regard, I hope that we and the Government are agreed. However, we might differ on the timing of such legislation. Plaid Cymru believes that the Government could start consulting on this legislation now. For me, it is more of a priority to safeguard our children from second-hand smoke in cars than it is to legislate on banning piercings for children under the age of 16.

Mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu cynnal rhaglen sy’n hyrwyddo peidio ag ysmygu mewn ceir â phlant, fel mae’r Gweinidog wedi amlinellu, ac, os nad yw honno’n llwyddiannus, ystyried deddfwriaeth. Nid wyf yn siŵr ai’r bwriad yw dweud wrth ysmygwyr os byddant yn para i ysmygu mewn ceir ar ôl inni ddweud wrthynt am beidio, byddwn yn eu gwahardd rhag gwneud hynny yn y dyfodol. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw’r neges honno yn glir ac yn debygol o fod yn llwyddiannus ymysg ysmygwyr. Efallai y bydd yr ymgyrch iechyd cyhoeddus hon yn lleihau rhywfaint o ysmygu mewn ceir, ond a yw’r Llywodraeth yn credu y bydd yn dod â’r arfer hwnnw i ben yn llwyr? Credaf fod hynny’n annhebygol iawn. Felly, mae’r gwelliant hwn yn gofyn i’r Llywodraeth ymrwymo i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn, a gobeithiaf y caiff gefnogaeth ar draws y Siambr.

The Government intends to run a promotional programme encouraging people to not smoke in cars carrying children, as outlined by the Minister, and, if that is not successful, they will then consider introducing legislation. I am not sure whether the intention here is to tell smokers that if they continue to smoke in cars after we have told them not to do so, we will then introduce a ban. I am not sure if that message will hit home and be successful among smokers. This public health campaign may well reduce the prevalence of smoking in cars somewhat, but does the Government really believe that it will bring an end to that practice entirely? I think that that is most unlikely. Therefore, this amendment asks the Government to commit to introducing legislation during this Assembly, and I very much hope that it will be supported across the Chamber.

Gwelliant 2 Peter Black

Amendment 2 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as a new point at end of motion:

Yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ganolbwyntio ar gynyddu’r niferoedd sy’n manteisio ar gynlluniau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu er mwyn lleihau’r niwed i iechyd y cyhoedd a achosir gan ysmygu.

Believes that the Welsh Government should focus its attention on improving the take-up of smoking cessation schemes in order to reduce the harm to public health caused by smoking.

Kirsty Williams: I move amendment 2 in the name of Peter Black.

Kirsty Williams: Cynigiaf welliant 2 yn enw Peter Black.

The amendment focuses on the need to increase the opportunities to help people who smoke to stop as being the most effective way of making a difference to not only those individuals’ health, but the health of those who they live and associate with.

Mae’r gwelliant yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen i gynyddu’r cyfleoedd i helpu pobl sy’n ysmygu i roi’r gorau fel y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o wneud gwahaniaeth nid yn unig i iechyd yr unigolion hynny, ond i iechyd y rheini y maent yn byw a chymdeithasu gyda hwy.

The arguments for why we need people to either not start smoking in the first place or to quit if they have started are well rehearsed and known by all. The individual effect is well known, but with regard to the global effect of smoking on the Welsh NHS, the figures are considerable. Some 20 per cent of our admissions to hospitals are for smoking-related diseases. We are spending approximately £386 million a year on treating smoking-related diseases in the NHS. Having just followed the debate on the budget, if there was a more effective way of spending our money in the NHS, surely it would be on the relatively inexpensive interventions of trying to assist people from starting to smoke in the first place rather than continuing to treat the end effects. However, it is easy to say, ‘Let us encourage people to stop smoking’, but it is much harder to do that if you are an individual with an addiction to nicotine.

Yr ydym yn gyfarwydd iawn â’r dadleuon o blaid yr angen i bobl beidio â dechrau ysmygu yn y lle cyntaf neu i roi’r gorau iddi os ydynt wedi dechrau. Mae’r effaith unigol yn adnabyddus, ond gyda golwg ar effaith hollgynhwysol ysmygu ar y GIG yng Nghymru, mae’r ffigurau yn sylweddol. Mae tua 20 y cant o’n derbyniadau i ysbytai ar gyfer clefydau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu. Yr ydym yn gwario tua £386 miliwn y flwyddyn ar drin clefydau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu yn y GIG. O ystyried ein bod ni newydd gael dadl ar y gyllideb, os oedd ffordd fwy effeithiol o wario ein harian yn y GIG, siawns y byddai ar yr ymyriadau cymharol rad o geisio cynorthwyo pobl rhag dechrau ysmygu yn y lle cyntaf yn hytrach na pharhau i drin yr effeithiau terfynol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n hawdd dweud, ‘Gadewch inni annog pobl i roi’r gorau i ysmygu’, ond mae’n llawer anoddach gwneud hynny os ydych chi’n unigolyn sy’n gaeth i nicotin.

I welcome the Government’s acceptance of the amendment today and the commitment made by the Minister to a cessation support review. However, when does she envisage this review starting? When will it conclude? When will we see some actionable results as a result of that review? It seems to me that although the smoking cessation schemes that are available undoubtedly work for some, they are quite narrow in their approach. They rely very much on group work, which is useful for some people, but it actually works against plans to help other groups quit. For instance, young people can be put off from attending a group that they would perceive as being populated by old people, people whom they would not have anything in common with. We have a particular challenge in getting those younger people to stop.

Croesawaf y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn y gwelliant heddiw a chroesawaf yr ymrwymiad a wnaed gan y Gweinidog i adolygu’r cymorth a roddir i bobl i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Fodd bynnag, pa bryd y mae hi’n rhagweld y bydd yr adolygiad hwn yn cychwyn? Pa bryd y daw i ben? Pa bryd y byddwn yn gweld rhai canlyniadau y gellir eu gweithredu o ganlyniad i’r adolygiad hwnnw? Mae’n ymddangos i mi, er bod y cynlluniau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu sydd ar gael yn ddi-os yn gweithio i rai, eu bod yn eithaf cul. Maent yn dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar waith grŵp, sy’n ddefnyddiol i rai pobl, ond, mewn gwirionedd, mae’n gweithio yn erbyn cynlluniau i helpu grwpiau eraill i roi’r gorau iddi. Er enghraifft, gall pobl ifanc, o weld grŵp o bobl hŷn, yn bobl na fyddai ganddynt unrhyw beth yn gyffredin â hwy, feddwl nad yw’r grŵp yn addas iddyn nhw. Mae gennym her arbennig o ran annog pobl iau i roi’r gorau i ysmygu.

The Minister also made note of her desire to see smoking cessation schemes work hand in hand with elective patients.

Nododd y Gweinidog hefyd ei hawydd i weld cynlluniau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu yn gweithio law yn llaw â chleifion dewisol.

4.15 p.m.

Of course, that is very welcome indeed. However, very few of our district general hospitals that carry out elective work or any type of NHS intervention have smoking cessation programmes based within the hospital. I appreciate that, if you are unwell in hospital, the last thing you feel you need on top of the pressure that you already feel is an approach to you to stop smoking. However, what better place to begin to have that conversation about the effects of smoking on your health? As I said, very few of our hospitals have schemes available based within the hospital in order to work with patients on wards to get them to begin this journey of giving up.

Wrth gwrs, mae hwnnw i’w groesawu’n fawr. Fodd bynnag, ychydig iawn o’n hysbytai dosbarth cyffredinol, sy’n cyflawni gwaith dewisol neu unrhyw fath o ymyrraeth y GIG sydd â rhaglenni rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu wedi’u lleoli yn yr ysbyty. Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi, os ydych yn sâl yn yr ysbyty, y peth olaf yr ydych yn teimlo sydd ei angen arnoch ar ben y pwysau yr ydych eisoes yn ei deimlo yw cynnig i chi rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu. Fodd bynnag, pa le gwell i ddechrau cael y sgwrs honno am effeithiau ysmygu ar eich iechyd? Fel y dywedais, ychydig iawn o’n hysbytai sydd â chynlluniau yn yr ysbyty er mwyn gweithio gyda chleifion ar wardiau i’w hannog i gychwyn y daith hon o roi’r gorau iddi.

Medical research shows that, as soon as you give up, your body has an amazing ability to start to repair the damage. Blood pressure drops within hours of the last cigarette and breathing function can improve rapidly. People can improve their health the moment they give up, and they are never too old to give up. We just need the Government to be bold and to focus particularly on this aspect of the smoking cessation plan, which I think would probably be more beneficial than all the legislation in the world in encouraging people to give up this very difficult addiction.

Mae ymchwil feddygol yn dangos, cyn gynted ag y byddwch yn rhoi’r gorau iddi, fod gan eich corff gallu anhygoel i ddechrau i atgyweirio’r difrod. Mae pwysedd gwaed yn disgyn o fewn oriau ar ôl y sigarét olaf a gall anadlu wella’n gyflym. Gall pobl wella eu hiechyd o’r foment y maent yn rhoi’r gorau iddi, ac nid ydynt byth yn rhy hen i roi’r gorau iddi. Mae angen i’r Llywodraeth fod yn feiddgar ac i ganolbwyntio’n benodol ar yr agwedd hon ar y cynllun rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu, a fydd, rwy’n credu, yn fwy buddiol mwy na thebyg na’r holl ddeddfwriaeth yn y byd o ran annog pobl i roi’r gorau i’r gaethiwed anodd iawn hwn.

Keith Davies: Dylwn ddatgan buddiant: mae fy ngwraig yn ysmygu yn ei char hi, ond nid yn fy un i. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, cymerwyd camau mawr dros y 50 mlynedd diwethaf. Yr oedd dros 90 y cant o ddynion a nifer o fenywod yn ysmygu adeg yr ail ryfel byd. Mae hynny wedi dod lawr i chwarter y boblogaeth yn awr. Cyfeiriodd Elin Jones yn gynharach at y targedau sydd gennym i ostwng hynny i 16 y cant erbyn 2020, ac efallai i gael cymdeithas ddi-fwg yn y pen draw.

Keith Davies: I should declare an interest: my wife smokes in her car, but she does not smoke in mine. As the Minister said, huge steps have been taken in the past 50 years. Some 90 per cent of men and a number of women smoked at the time of the second world war. That has now reduced to a quarter of the population. Elin Jones referred earlier to the targets that we have to reduce this further to 16 per cent by 2020 and perhaps have a smoke-free society at the end of it all.

Mae wyth o weithredoedd angenrheidiol yn y cynllun gweithredu ar reoli tybaco a fydd yn ein helpu i gyrraedd y targed drwy leoli gwelliannau mewn mannau gweithredu pellach. Mae hyn yn adeiladu ar y rhaglen gyfredol i rwystro pobl ifanc rhag dechrau ysmygu ac annog y rhai sydd eisiau rhoi’r gorau iddi. Fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae bron i 6,000 o bobl yn marw yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn o ganlyniad i ysmygu. Mae bron i hanner yr ysmygwyr tymor hir yn marw mewn canol oed neu’n dioddef o iechyd gwael neu leihad mewn ansawdd bywyd. Mae gwir angen gweithredu pellach. Ychwanegir at y brys gan y ffaith bod 20 y cant o dderbyniadau ysbyty a diwrnodau gwely yng Nghymru yn digwydd oherwydd pobl yn dioddef o glefydau yn ymwneud ag ysmygu. Yr oedd arweinydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn sôn am yr effaith ar y gwasanaeth iechyd.

There are eight complsory steps in the tobacco control action plan that will help to achieve the targets by locating improvements in further action areas. This builds on the current programme to prevent young people from smoking and encourage people to give up. As the Minister said, nearly 6,000 people a year in Wales die because of smoking. Nearly half of long-term smokers die in middle age or suffer from poor health or a diminution in quality of life. We desperately need further action. The urgency has been exacerbated by the fact that 20 per cent of hospital admissions and bed days are as a result of people with smoking-related diseases. The leader of the Liberal Democrats referred to the effect on the health service.

Fodd bynnag, mae ffordd ymlaen, gan fod 70 y cant o ysmygwyr eisiau rhoi’r gorau iddi. Gwelwyd fod agwedd Llywodraeth yn adlewyrchu pwysigrwydd y mater. Yn ddeddfwriaethol, mae enw da gan y Blaid Lafur. Gwaharddwyd ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus eisoes, ac mae cynllun i ymgynghori ar ddeddfwriaeth bellach i wahardd ysmygu ar dir ysbytai lle bydd lefelau uchel o fwg a lle bydd pobl yn casglu, mewn mannau chwarae i blant ac, os oes eisiau, mewn ceir sy’n cario plant. Gwaharddwyd gwerthiant tybaco mewn peiriannau gwerthu, i ddechrau y flwyddyn nesaf, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, am fod nifer fawr o blant dan 18 oed yn prynu sigarets o’r peiriannau hyn, yn enwedig merched ifanc y dyddiau hyn.

However, there is a way forward, because 70 per cent of smokers want to give up. We have seen that the attitude of the Government underlines thie importance of this issue. Legislatively, the Labour Party has a good reputation. Smoking in public places has already been banned, and we now have a consultation on further legislation to ban smoking within hospital grounds where there are high levels of smoke and where people congregate, in children’s playgrounds and, if necessary, in cars carrying children. Tobacco sales from vending machines will be banned from early next year, as the Minister said, because a huge number of children under 18, particularly young girls these days, buy cigarettes from machines.

Yn ystod y Cynulliad diwethaf, gwariwyd £190 miliwn ar iechyd cyhoeddus, a chafwyd ymrwymiad maniffesto ar gyfer y Cynulliad hwn i gael ymgyrch iechyd blynyddol. Bydd hyn, wedi’i ariannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru, yn arwain at hyfforddiant ymyrraeth cryno i broffesiynau gofal iechyd i gefnogi rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu. Enghreifftiau pendant yw’r rhain o bwysleisio pwysigrwydd y mater. O safbwynt lleol, dengys ffigurau iechyd cenedlaethol Cymru bod dros 20 y cant o bobl sir Gâr yn ysmygu, o gymharu â chyfartaledd cenedlaethol o 24 y cant. Cafwyd 500 o dderbyniadau ysbyty yn Llanelli yn 2009-10 oherwydd clefydau anadlol. Dengys ffigurau ASH mai ysmygu sy’n achosi 35 y cant o farwolaethau anadlol. Mae ffigurau rhyngwladol yn dangos mai clefydau anadlol a achosir yn bennaf gan ysmygu yw’r pedwerydd ar y rhestr o achosion mwyaf cyffredin am farwolaethau. O ganlyniad, yr wyf yn cefnogi datganiad y Llywodraeth y dylem ddatblygu cynlluniau gweithredu eang ar gyfer ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol. Bydd hyn yn ystyried data a gwybodaeth leol ac yn creu canlyniadau priodol a mesuradwy.

During the last Assembly term, £190 million was spent on public health, and there was a manifesto commitment for this Assembly for a public health campaign. Funded by the Welsh Government, this will lead to brief intervention training for health professionals to support smoking cessation. These are specific examples of the urgency of the situation. From a local perspective, national health figures for Wales show that more than 20 per cent of people in Carmarthenshire smoke, compared with the national figure of 24 per cent. There were 500 hospital admissions in Llanelli in 2009-10 because of respiratory diseases. ASH figures show that smoking causes 35 per cent of respiratory deaths. International figures show that respiratory diseases caused by smoking are the fourth most common cause of death. As a result, I support the Government’s statement that we should develop broad action plans for local authority areas. This will be based on local data and information, and will lead to better and measurable outcomes.

Dengys ffigurau Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint bod lefelau salwch anadlol ymysg y tlotaf yng Nghymru yn 22 y cant, sef dwywaith y lefel a geir ymysg pobl gyfoethog. Mae ysmygu yn ffactor cyfrannol mawr i hyn. Amcan Llywodraeth Cymru yn y cynllun gweithredu, yn ogystal ag amddiffyn pobl ifanc, yw lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd fel bod hyd oes disgwyliedig yr un fath mewn ardaloedd cyfoethog a thlawd.

British Lung Foundation figures show that respiratory disease levels among the poorest people in Wales stand at 22 per cent—twice the level among the richest people. Smoking is a large contributory factor in this. The Welsh Government’s aim in the action plan, as well as to safeguard young people, is to reduce health inequalities so that life expectancy is the same in both rich and poor areas.

Mae ‘Canlyniadau iechyd tecach i bawb’ yn dangos bod nifer o ardaloedd lle mae angen gweithredu i gynnwys iechyd ym mhob polisi a hybu iechyd. Mae ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i waredu tlodi plant a hyrwyddo Dechrau’n Deg yn enghraifft dda o weithredu o’r fath. O ran Dechrau’n Deg, cafwyd ymrwymiad i gynyddu’r nifer o blant a’u teuluoedd a fydd yn manteisio ar y rhaglen o 18,000 i 36,000 yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn. Dyma un o’r pum prif ymrwymiad er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol tecach yng Nghymru.

‘Fairer health outcomes for all’ shows that action is needed to include health and health promotion in all policies in a number of areas. The Government’s commitment to end child poverty and to promote Flying Start is a good example of such action. With Flying Start, a commitment was made to increase the number of children and families benefitting from the programme from 18,000 to 36,000 during this Assembly. That is one of the five main commitments for securing a fairer future in Wales.

Mae hwn yn fater sy’n bwysig i mi, gan fy mod yn gyn athro. Fel aelod o’r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc, hoffwn sicrhau gostyngiad yn nifer y plant sy’n dioddef o effeithiau ysmygu. Felly, yr wyf yn falch bod hwn hefyd yn bwysig i’r Llywodraeth. Yr wyf yn croesawu datblygiad yr ymgyrch o ran ysmygu mewn ceir a dylem ystyried opsiynau deddfwriaethol oni cheir gostyngiad yn nifer y plant sy’n anadlu mwg ail-law mewn ceir yn y tair blynedd nesaf.

This issue is important for me, as a former teacher. As a member of the Children and Young People Committee, I would like to see a reduction in the number of children who suffer from the effects of smoking. Therefore, I am pleased that this is important for the Government, too. I welcome the development of the campaign on smoking in cars, and we should consider legislative options if there is no reduction in the number of children inhaling the smoke of others in cars over the next three years.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Please conclude now.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. A wnewch chi orffen eich cyfraniad yn awr?

Keith Davies: Ceir 156,000 o achosion bob blwyddyn o salwch mewn plant wedi’u hachosi gan ysmygu goddefol yn ôl Coleg Brenhinol y Ffisigwyr. Mae hefyd yn gyfrifol am tua 40 marwolaeth sydyn y flwyddyn ymysg babanod. Yr wyf yn falch i gefnogi’r Llywodraeth.

Keith Davies: There are 156,000 cases every year of ill health in children caused by passive smoking, according to the Royal College of Physicians. It is also responsible for some 40 sudden deaths every year among infants. I am pleased to support the Government.

William Graham: In supporting this motion, I think that it is worth recording yet again that smoking is the leading cause of preventable death and disease in Wales. There are over 6,000 smoking-related deaths in Wales each year. The reality is that smoking kills more people each year than the following preventable causes of death combined: obesity, alcohol, traffic accidents and illegal drugs.

William Graham: Wrth gefnogi’r cynnig hwn, yr wyf yn meddwl ei bod yn werth cofnodi unwaith eto mai ysmygu yw prif achos marwolaeth ataliadwy a chlefyd yng Nghymru. Mae dros 6,000 o farwolaethau yn gysylltiedig ag ysmygu yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn. Y realiti yw bod ysmygu yn lladd mwy o bobl bob blwyddyn na’r achosion canlynol o farwolaethau y gellir eu hatal wedi eu cyfuno: gordewdra, alcohol, damweiniau traffig a chyffuriau anghyfreithlon.

About half of all lifelong smokers will die prematurely, losing on average about 10 years of their life. There is a disproportionate adverse impact upon the health and lives of those affected by a passive smoking environment. It is clear that premature death, combined with the associated decline in health and possible inabilities, contributes to the poverty and poor lifestyles experienced by many families of smokers. Furthermore, it places unnecessary pressures upon scarce NHS resources.

Bydd tua hanner yr holl ysmygwyr gydol oes yn marw cyn eu hamser, gan golli ar gyfartaledd tua 10 mlynedd o’u bywyd. Mae effaith anffafriol anghyfartal ar iechyd a bywydau’r rhai yr effeithir arnynt gan amgylchedd ysmygu goddefol. Mae’n amlwg bod marwolaeth gynamserol, ynghyd â’r dirywiad cysylltiedig mewn iechyd a gwendidau posibl, yn cyfrannu at dlodi a ffyrdd o fyw gwael a brofir gan lawer o deuluoedd o ysmygwyr. Ar ben hynny, mae’n gosod pwysau diangen ar adnoddau prin y GIG.

However, we must accept that smoking is a matter of personal choice. It is a choice that is often made in childhood, arising from peer pressure or an attempt to copy adult behaviour. There have been initiatives directed at encouraging people not to smoke and to assist them to stop smoking. I am supportive of a recommendation by ASH that we need a tobacco control delivery plan that is monitored through published targets and a board of experts and which will enable us to reinforce how we tackle these issues as they arise, not reflect upon the failure of previous policies. It is vital that we ensure that we provide a smoke-free environment for our children—in their homes, in their family vehicles and their playgrounds.

Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni dderbyn bod ysmygu yn fater o ddewis personol. Mae’n ddewis sy’n aml yn cael ei wneud yn ystod plentyndod, yn deillio o bwysau gan gyfoedion neu ymgais i efelychu ymddygiad oedolion. Bu mentrau wedi’u hanelu at annog pobl i beidio ag ysmygu ac i’w cynorthwyo i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Yr wyf yn gefnogol i argymhelliad gan ASH bod angen arnom gynllun cyflawni ar reoli tybaco sy’n cael ei fonitro drwy dargedau cyhoeddedig a bwrdd o arbenigwyr a fydd yn ein galluogi i atgyfnerthu sut yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn wrth iddynt godi, yn hytrach nag ystyried methiant polisïau blaenorol. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn sicrhau ein bod yn darparu amgylchedd di-fwg ar gyfer ein plant—yn eu cartrefi, yn eu cerbydau teuluol a’u meysydd chwarae.

We must respond to the fact that the majority of adult smokers began smoking in childhood. It is, therefore, essential to reduce the number of children smoking in order to reduce the adult smoking rate in the future. I believe that it is necessary to legislate to make it illegal for adults to purchase tobacco on behalf of children. The number of people who smoke in Wales challenges us to demonstrate the personal and family benefits of not smoking, together with the positive impact that this would have upon our NHS services.

Mae’n rhaid inni ymateb i’r ffaith bod y mwyafrif o oedolion sy’n ysmygu yn dechrau ysmygu yn ystod plentyndod. Y mae, felly, yn hanfodol lleihau nifer y plant sy’n ysmygu er mwyn lleihau cyfradd yr oedolion sy’n ysmygu yn y dyfodol. Credaf ei fod yn angenrheidiol deddfu i’w wneud yn anghyfreithlon i oedolion brynu tybaco ar ran plant. Mae nifer y bobl sy’n ysmygu yng Nghymru yn ein herio i ddangos manteision personol a theuluol peidio ag ysmygu, ynghyd â’r effaith gadarnhaol y byddai hyn yn ei chael ar ein gwasanaethau GIG.

It is worth reflecting that, within 20 minutes of stopping smoking, a person’s blood pressure and pulse return to normal. After eight hours, the levels of carbon monoxide and nicotine in the blood have reduced by 50 per cent. After 24 hours, carbon monoxide is eliminated from the body, the lungs start to clear and a person’s chance of a heart attack decreases measurably. After 48 hours, the nicotine has left the body and, after 72 hours, breathing becomes easier and energy levels increase.

Mae’n werth ystyried fod pwysedd gwaed a churiad calon person yn dychwelyd i normal o fewn 20 munud i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Ar ôl wyth awr, mae’r lefelau carbon monocsid a nicotin yn y gwaed wedi gostwng 50 y cant. Ar ôl 24 awr, mae carbon monocsid yn cael ei ddileu o’r corff, mae’r ysgyfaint yn dechrau clirio ac y mae siawns person o gael trawiad ar y galon yn gostwng yn fesuradwy. Ar ôl 48 awr, mae’r nicotin wedi gadael y corff ac, ar ôl 72 awr, mae’n haws anadlu ac y mae lefelau egni yn cynyddu.

A nation is judged not only on the quality of care that it provides for those who require assistance, but also on its provision to ensure that all people can live in a safe and healthy environment. This tobacco control delivery plan highlights the challenges that we face in providing that environment.

Bernir cenedl nid yn unig ar ansawdd y gofal y mae’n ei ddarparu ar gyfer y rhai sydd angen cymorth, ond hefyd ar ei ddarpariaeth i sicrhau y gall pawb fyw mewn amgylchedd diogel ac iach. Mae’r cynllun cyflawni ar reoli tybaco yn tynnu sylw at yr heriau sy’n ein hwynebu wrth ddarparu’r amgylchedd hwnnw.

Sandy Mewies: William Graham has done a very good job of reminding people why it is a good thing to stop smoking and why people should be encouraged not to start smoking. British Lung Foundation research shows that lung cancer is still the biggest cancer killer in Wales. It kills far more people than any other cancer, and survival rates are alarmingly low. An illustration of this is that the five-year survival rate for lung cancer is just 7 per cent, while the average for all cancers is 49 per cent. I come from a family that smoked. That may be the reason why I am only 4 foot 11 inches tall, and it is almost certainly the reason why I suffer from asthma, as did my sister. I also had a brother who died from lung cancer. Therefore, you have to think about these things when you think about what we are doing. This is self-inflicted—there is no doubt about that. I speak as a former smoker myself, and there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker. The same is probably true of a reformed drinker, though I do not know about that. We really have to get these messages across.

Sandy Mewies: Mae William Graham wedi gwneud gwaith da iawn o atgoffa pobl pam ei fod yn beth da i roi’r gorau i ysmygu a pham y dylid annog pobl i beidio â dechrau ysmygu. Mae ymchwil Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint yn dangos fod canser yr ysgyfaint yn dal i fod y lladdwr canser mwyaf yng Nghymru. Mae’n lladd llawer mwy o bobl nag unrhyw ganser arall, ac y mae cyfraddau goroesi yn frawychus o isel. Enghraifft o hyn yw bod y gyfradd goroesi pum-mlynedd ar gyfer canser yr ysgyfaint yn 7 y cant yn unig, tra bod y cyfartaledd ar gyfer pob canser yn 49 y cant. Yr wyf yn dod o deulu a oedd yn ysmygu. Gallai hynny fod pam yr wyf ond yn 4 troedfedd 11 modfedd o daldra, ac yr wyf bron yn sicr mai dyna pam yr wyf yn dioddef o asthma, fel yr oedd fy chwaer. Yr oedd hefyd gennyf frawd a fu farw o ganser yr ysgyfaint. Felly, rhaid i chi feddwl am y pethau hyn pan fyddwch yn meddwl am yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae rhywun yn gwthio ar ei hunan-nid oes amheuaeth am hynny. Siaradaf fel cyn ysmygwr fy hun, ac nid oes dim yn waeth nag ysmygwr diwygiedig. Mae’r un peth yn wir, mae’n debyg, am yfwr diwygiedig, er nad wyf yn gwybod am hynny. Rhaid inni gyfleu’r negeseuon hyn.

We all welcome the success that we have had in Wales in reducing the number of smokers by banning smoking in all enclosed public spaces and workplaces, and in stating why we need to continue the drive to reduce the numbers of people who smoke. I pay tribute to the British Lung Foundation for the many events that it has held here and for encouraging us to do this. I also thank our former colleague Val Lloyd, who raised this issue again and again, and played an important part in what happened.

Yr ydym i gyd yn croesawu’r llwyddiant a gawsom yng Nghymru o ran lleihau nifer yr ysmygwyr drwy wahardd ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus caeedig a gweithleoedd, a thrwy nodi pam mae angen inni barhau â’r ymgyrch i leihau nifer y bobl sy’n ysmygu. Talaf deyrnged i Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint am y nifer o ddigwyddiadau y mae wedi’u cynnal yma ac am ein hannog i wneud hyn. Diolch hefyd i’n cyn cydweithiwr Val Lloyd, a gododd y mater hwn dro ar ôl tro, ac a chwaraeodd rhan bwysig yn yr hyn a ddigwyddodd.

At the start of this Assembly term, I put down a statement of opinion supporting the British Lung Foundation in its drive to improve the lung health of people in Wales and to protect children from the damage caused by tobacco. The statement said that we would like to see Wales continue to lead the UK in putting children’s health first. I think that this is still a shared objective, although we may see slightly different ways of getting there. I was very pleased that the statement received support across the political spectrum. More importantly, however, I was delighted when the Minister for health announced soon afterwards that, as part of its drive for improving public health, the Welsh Government had identified the need to further reduce smoking and exposure to second-hand smoke.

Ar ddechrau tymor y Cynulliad hwn, cyflwynais ddatganiad barn yn cefnogi Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint yn ei hymgyrch i wella iechyd ysgyfaint pobl yng Nghymru ac i ddiogelu plant rhag y difrod a achosir gan dybaco. Dywedodd y datganiad yr hoffem weld Cymru yn parhau i arwain y DU wrth roi iechyd plant yn gyntaf. Credaf fod hyn yn dal yn amcan a rennir, er efallai y gwelwn ffyrdd ychydig yn wahanol o gyrraedd yno. Yr oeddwn yn falch iawn bod y datganiad wedi derbyn cefnogaeth ar draws y sbectrwm gwleidyddol. Yn bwysicach, fodd bynnag, yr oeddwn wrth fy modd pan gyhoeddodd y Gweinidog dros iechyd yn fuan wedi hynny fod Llywodraeth Cymru, fel rhan o’i hymgyrch i wella iechyd y cyhoedd, wedi nodi’r angen i leihau cyfraddau ysmygu ymhellach a’r cysylltiad â mwg ail-law.

As part of that announcement, it was also stated that the Welsh Government will look at legislation to ban smoking in cars where children are passengers if the awareness campaign launched in the new year fails to achieve a significant reduction in exposure to second-hand smoke. I think that that is very important. I welcome the steps that are being taken, including the research that is being undertaken to estimate how many children are exposed to second-hand smoke in cars. It is unacceptable to allow children—and Assembly Members; look at Keith—to be exposed to the dangers of smoking, including passive smoking. Therefore, I for one welcome this action.

Fel rhan o’r cyhoeddiad hwnnw, nodwyd hefyd y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn edrych ar ddeddfwriaeth i wahardd ysmygu mewn ceir lle mae plant yn deithwyr os yw’r ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth, a gaiff ei lansio yn y flwyddyn newydd, yn methu â sicrhau gostyngiad sylweddol o ran cysylltiad â mwg ail-law. Credaf fod hynny’n bwysig iawn. Croesawaf y camau a chant eu cymryd, gan gynnwys y gwaith ymchwil a wneir i amcangyfrif faint o blant sy’n dod i gysylltiad â mwg ail-law mewn ceir. Mae’n annerbyniol i ganiatáu i blant—ac Aelodau’r Cynulliad; edrychwch ar Keith—i fod yn agored i beryglon ysmygu, gan gynnwys ysmygu goddefol. Felly, yr wyf i’n croesawu’r camau hyn.

The BLF carried out its own survey, which revealed that more than half of children in the UK are exposed to cigarette smoke in a car. Also, 300,000 children in the UK go to their GP each year with illnesses related to passive smoking. Therefore, joking aside, this situation is serious and avoidable. I would agree with the British Lung Foundation, which recognises that awareness-raising is a very important first step. However, legislation must remain an option, and we should not shirk from adopting legislation if, in the end, it becomes necessary.

Yr oedd Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint wedi cynnal ei arolwg ei hun, a oedd yn datgelu bod mwy na hanner y plant yn y DU yn dod i gysylltiad â mwg sigaréts mewn car. Hefyd, y mae 300,000 o blant yn y DU yn mynd at eu meddyg teulu bob blwyddyn gyda salwch sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu goddefol. Felly, gan roi’r cellwair o’r neilltu, mae’r sefyllfa hon yn ddifrifol a gellir ei osgoi. Byddwn yn cytuno â Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint, sy’n cydnabod bod codi ymwybyddiaeth yn gam cyntaf pwysig iawn. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i ddeddfwriaeth barhau i fod yn opsiwn, ac ni ddylem osgoi mabwysiadu deddfwriaeth os daw’n angenrheidiol yn y pendraw.

Lindsay Whittle: This is a really interesting and important debate. We all know that any reduction in the numbers of people who smoke will not only benefit the individuals, but will also benefit the NHS, through savings made by having to treat fewer people with smoking-related illnesses. Of course, it will also benefit the economy, which we have heard a lot about today, through reducing the number of working days lost through absence from work. The plan refers to working with academic bodies to carry out research. That is fine, but according to the research of which I have been made aware, it is not easy to identify any particular health promotion activity as being the direct cause of stopping people from smoking. I fear that people usually stop smoking because of the price of cigarettes; however, the black market that we have today is beating us as well.

Lindsay Whittle: Mae hon yn ddadl hynod ddiddorol a phwysig. Yr ydym oll yn gwybod y bydd unrhyw ostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sy’n ysmygu nid yn unig o fudd i’r unigolion, ond hefyd o fudd i’r GIG, drwy arbedion a wneir drwy orfod trin llai o bobl â salwch sy’n gysylltiedig ag ysmygu. Wrth gwrs, bydd hefyd o fudd i’r economi, yr ydym wedi clywed llawer amdano heddiw, drwy leihau nifer y diwrnodau gwaith a gollwyd drwy absenoldeb o’r gwaith. Mae’r cynllun yn cyfeirio at weithio gyda chyrff academaidd i gynnal ymchwil. Mae hynny’n iawn, ond yn ôl yr ymchwil yr wyf i’n ymwybodol ohono, nid yw’n hawdd nodi unrhyw weithgaredd hybu iechyd penodol yn achos uniongyrchol o atal pobl rhag ysmygu. Ofnaf fod pobl fel arfer yn rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu oherwydd pris sigaréts; fodd bynnag, mae’r farchnad ddu sydd gennym heddiw yn ein curo hefyd.

We should focus first on the impact of passive smoking on children’s health and, secondly, we should focus on efforts to prevent children from starting to smoke. We know that the younger that people start smoking, the harder it is for them to quit. As for the problems of adults smoking in cars when children are passengers, I cannot accept, as stated in the delivery programme, that we should wait three years to find out whether children’s exposure to second-hand smoke starts to decline.

Dylem ganolbwyntio’n gyntaf ar effaith ysmygu goddefol ar iechyd plant ac, yn ail, dylem ganolbwyntio ar ymdrechion i atal plant rhag dechrau ysmygu. Gwyddom yr ifancaf y mae pobl yn dechrau ysmygu, y mwyaf anodd ydyw iddynt roi’r gorau iddi. O ran y problemau o oedolion yn ysmygu mewn ceir pan fo plant yn deithwyr, ni allaf dderbyn, fel y nodwyd yn y rhaglen gyflenwi, y dylem aros tair blynedd i gael gwybod a yw cysylltiad plant â mwg ail-law yn dechrau gostwng.

4.30 p.m.

We should take strong action now to pave the way for the banning of smoking in cars carrying children. Other countries have done it, so why not Wales? We have had debates about stopping the piercing of children and we have had debates about stopping the smacking of children, but it seems that it is okay to expose them to the possible danger of lung cancer. I really cannot get my head around that.

Dylem gymryd camau cryf yn awr i baratoi’r ffordd ar gyfer gwahardd ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cario plant. Mae gwledydd eraill wedi ei wneud, felly pam na chaiff Cymru? Yr ydym wedi cael dadleuon am atal tyllu plant ac yr ydym wedi cael dadleuon am stopio curo plant, ond mae’n ymddangos ei bod yn iawn i’w datgelu i’r perygl posibl o ganser yr ysgyfaint. Mewn gwirionedd, ni allaf ddeall hynny.

I am not a total anti-smoking fascist; I do not support a ban on people smoking in their own cars, because that would perhaps be a step too far. They know the dangers of smoking, but their children do not and they are the ones who we have to protect. Apart from the fact that it is a health hazard inflicted upon children, driving while smoking is an obvious example of perhaps driving without due care and attention. If you can be pulled over by the police for eating a sandwich while driving, maybe the same should apply to smoking. By focusing our attention on children, we stand a better chance of hitting the target of reducing the number of adults who smoke in the long term. For now, however, we should not be talking about a target of 16 per cent of the population smoking by 2020. That overall figure hides the very wide gap between smoking rates in lower-income households and in higher-income households. We should instead aim in particular to reduce the percentage of people who smoke in the more deprived areas of Wales, because health levels in those areas, as we know, are much poorer.

Nid wyf yn ffasgydd gwrthysmygu; nid wyf yn cefnogi gwaharddiad ar bobl yn ysmygu yn eu ceir eu hunain, oherwydd efallai y byddai hynny’n gam yn rhy bell. Maent yn gwybod beth yw peryglon ysmygu, ond nid yw eu plant, a’r rheini yw’r bobl y mae’n rhaid inni eu diogelu. Ar wahân i’r ffaith ei fod yn berygl iechyd a achosir i blant, mae ysmygu wrth yrru yn enghraifft amlwg, efallai, o yrru heb ofal a sylw dyledus. Os gallwch chi gael eich dal gan yr heddlu am fwyta brechdan wrth yrru, efallai y dylai’r un peth fod yn berthnasol i ysmygu. Drwy ganolbwyntio ein sylw ar blant, mae gwell siawns gennym o gyrraedd y targed o leihau nifer yr oedolion sy’n ysmygu yn y tymor hir. Ar hyn o bryd, fodd bynnag, ni ddylem fod yn siarad am y targed o 16 y cant o’r boblogaeth yn ysmygu erbyn 2020. Mae’r ffigur cyffredinol hwnnw’n cuddio bwlch eang rhwng cyfraddau ysmygu ar aelwydydd incwm isel ac aelwydydd incwm uwch. Yn hytrach, dylem anelu’n benodol i leihau canran y bobl sy’n ysmygu yn yr ardaloedd mwy difreintiedig yng Nghymru, oherwydd mae lefelau iechyd yn yr ardaloedd hynny, fel y gwyddom, yn llawer gwaeth.

Trying to reduce smoking levels is nothing new; some of us will remember as far back as the mid-1980s and the Heartbeat Wales campaign, which had reducing smoking as one of its main aims. It had limited success. I believe that by involving schools in helping to prevent children from taking up smoking, by making it illegal for children to be exposed to smoking in road vehicles, and by focusing on attempts to significantly reduce smoking among lower-income households, the Welsh Government, in partnership with those agencies mentioned in the tobacco control action plan, can play an important part in improving the health of our nation. This is an extremely important debate; please do not miss this opportunity to help to save the lives of young children. Many will remember watching, as young children years ago, an entertainer called Roy Castle on television. He died as a result of passive smoking.

Nid yw ceisio lleihau lefelau ysmygu yn rhywbeth newydd; bydd rhai ohonom yn cofio mor bell yn ôl â chanol y 1980au ac ymgyrch Curiad Calon Cymru, a oedd â lleihau ysmygu fel un o’i brif amcanion. Cafodd peth llwyddiant. Credaf drwy gynnwys ysgolion yn yr ymgais i helpu atal plant rhag dechrau ysmygu, gan ei wneud yn anghyfreithlon i blant i fod yn agored i ysmygu mewn cerbydau ffordd, a thrwy ganolbwyntio ar ymdrechion i leihau ysmygu’n sylweddol ymysg aelwydydd incwm is, fe all Lywodraeth Cymru, mewn partneriaeth â’r asiantaethau hynny a grybwyllir yn y cynllun gweithredu rheoli tybaco, chwarae rhan bwysig wrth geisio gwella iechyd ein cenedl. Mae hon yn ddadl eithriadol o bwysig; rwy’n erfyn arnoch i beidio â cholli’r cyfle hwn i helpu i arbed bywydau plant ifanc. Bydd nifer o bobl yn cofio gwylio, fel plant ifanc flynyddoedd yn ôl, diddanwr o’r enw Roy Castle ar y teledu. Bu farw o ganlyniad i ysmygu goddefol.

Julie Morgan: I also welcome this important debate, and I hope that we will be able to build on the great achievements that have already been made in the Assembly.

Julie Morgan: Croesawaf y ddadl bwysig hon hefyd, a gobeithiaf y byddwn yn gallu adeiladu ar y cyflawniadau mawr sydd eisoes wedi’u gwneud yn y Cynulliad.

I want to focus on two points. First, I welcome the Government’s commitment to review the exemption for residential mental health units under the Smoke-free Premises etc. (Wales) Regulations 2007. I am also pleased that a task and finish group is being set up to look at the mental health service in relation to smoking.

Yr wyf am ganolbwyntio ar ddau bwynt. Yn gyntaf, croesawaf ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i adolygu’r eithriad ar gyfer unedau iechyd meddwl preswyl o dan Reoliadau Mangreoedd etc Di-fwg (Cymru) 2007. Yr wyf hefyd yn falch bod grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn cael ei sefydlu i edrych ar y gwasanaeth iechyd meddwl mewn perthynas ag ysmygu.

Many have said today that smoking is the greatest cause of preventable illness in the UK. Those who have mental health problems smoke significantly more than the rest of the population. In fact, the highest levels of smoking in any population group are among in-patients in mental health units, where up to 70 per cent smoke. Those who have a mental illness already experience considerable health inequalities, and the high death rate among people with mental health problems is, in large part, due to their increased smoking levels. It therefore seems completely wrong to me that they should be given fewer opportunities than the rest of the population to benefit from smoke-free premises and from smoking cessation programmes. I hope that the Government will decide to remove the exemption and give help and support to mental health in-patient units to give those patients the opportunities that our policies have given to the rest of the population. Therefore, looking at the issues related to mental health patients is an important part of the action plan.

Mae nifer wedi dweud heddiw mai ysmygu yw’r achos mwyaf o salwch ataliadwy yn y DU. Mae’r rheini sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn ysmygu’n sylweddol fwy na gweddill y boblogaeth. Yn wir, mae’r lefelau uchaf o ysmygu mewn unrhyw grŵp poblogaeth ymhlith cleifion mewnol mewn unedau iechyd meddwl, lle mae hyd at 70 y cant yn ysmygu. Mae’r rhai sydd â salwch meddwl eisoes yn profi anghydraddoldebau iechyd sylweddol, ac mae’r gyfradd farwolaeth uchel ymhlith pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl, i raddau helaeth, oherwydd eu lefelau ysmygu cynyddol. Mae felly’n ymddangos imi’n gwbl anghywir bod llai o gyfleoedd ar gael iddynt hwy na gweddill y boblogaeth i elwa o safleoedd di-fwg ac o raglenni rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yn penderfynu cael gwared ar yr eithriad a rhoi help a chymorth i unedau cleifion mewnol iechyd meddwl i roi i’r cleifion hynny y cyfleoedd y mae ein polisïau wedi’u rhoi i weddill y boblogaeth. Felly, mae edrych ar y materion iechyd sy’n gysylltiedig â chleifion iechyd meddwl yn rhan bwysig o’r cynllun gweithredu.

There is a similar issue with prisons, but, of course, responsibility for prisons is not devolved, so we perhaps do not have a say in that. We have to recognise, however, that the Welsh health service does provide a service to prisoners in Wales, and it is a big issue that prisons are not smoke free. I have visited prisons in Canada that were smoke free, and, from talking to the staff there, I understand that the transition to prisons being smoke-free happened much more easily than anticipated. Of course, we may not have a say over that.

Mae mater tebyg gyda charchardai, ond, wrth gwrs, nid yw’r cyfrifoldeb am garchardai wedi’i ddatganoli, felly efallai nad oes gennym lais yn hynny. Rhaid inni gydnabod, fodd bynnag, fod y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru’n rhoi gwasanaeth i garcharorion yng Nghymru, ac mae’n fater pwysig nad yw carchardai’n ddi-fwg. Rwyf wedi ymweld â charchardai yng Nghanada a oedd yn ddi-fwg, ac, o siarad â’r staff yno, rwyf yn deall bod y pontio i garchardai di-fwg wedi digwydd yn llawer haws nag a ragwelwyd. Wrth gwrs, efallai nad oes gennym lais dros hynny.

Angela Burns: I have a question, because, to be honest, I am absolutely conflicted on this issue. With reference to the two types of institution that you mentioned and the examples that you have cited, were the prisoners and/or the patients in mental health institutions still able, if they chose—because this is about the choice of the adult as well—to go off to have a cigarette somewhere or were the prisons that you mentioned smoke-free zones because prisoners did not have the opportunity to get out to have a smoke?

Angela Burns: Mae gennyf gwestiwn, oherwydd, i fod yn onest, yr wyf yn cael fy nhynnu’r ddwy ffordd ar y mater hwn. Gan gyfeirio at y ddau fath o sefydliad a grybwyllwyd gennych a’r enghreifftiau yr ydych wedi’u nodi, a oedd y carcharorion a/neu’r cleifion mewn sefydliadau iechyd meddwl yn dal i fod yn gallu, os mai dyna oedd eu dewis—oherwydd mae hwn ynglŷn â dewis yr oedolyn hefyd—mynd i gael sigarét yn rhywle neu a oedd y carchardai a grybwyllwyd gennych yn barthau di-fwg oherwydd nad oedd gan garcharorion y cyfle i fynd i ysmygu?

Julie Morgan: The particular prison that I visited was completely smoke-free. There was nowhere that you could smoke. Therefore, it involved a huge cultural change for prisoners and there was a big issue about how the people who were looking after the prisoners dealt with it. However, they were fully in support of it and thought that it was something that we could consider here.

Julie Morgan: Roedd y carchar penodol yr ymwelais i ag ef yn hollol ddi-fwg. Nid oedd unman yr oeddech yn gallu ysmygu. Felly, roedd yn golygu newid diwylliannol enfawr i’r carcharorion, ac roedd yn fater mawr ynghylch sut roedd y bobl a oedd yn edrych ar ôl y carcharorion yn ymdrin ag ef. Fodd bynnag, roeddent yn llawn o’i blaid ac yn meddwl ei fod yn rhywbeth y gallem ei ystyried yma.

The second point that I wanted to make was on the smoking cessation programme. I welcome the commissioning of an independent review of that programme. I know that it is very hard to stop smoking and we have to ensure that the help that we provide is targeted and clear, that people know where to go for help, and that there is a uniform path that people can take to get help. It has already been said that the target of a reduction to 16 per cent by 2020 is ambitious. I know that the Bevan Foundation has said that that requires that 17,000 people a year quit. Therefore, a huge amount of help is needed. Young people in particular need to be targeted with well-trained peer health promoters, with a strong online presence and a website targeted at them.

Roedd yr ail bwynt yr oeddwn am ei wneud ar raglen rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu. Croesawaf gomisiynu adolygiad annibynnol o’r rhaglen honno. Gwn ei bod yn anodd iawn rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu a rhaid inni sicrhau bod y cymorth a ddarparwn wedi’i dargedu ac yn glir, bod pobl yn gwybod ble i fynd am help, a bod llwybr unffurf y gall pobl ei gymryd i gael help. Dywedwyd eisoes bod y targed o ostyngiad o 16 y cant erbyn 2020 yn uchelgeisiol. Gwn fod Sefydliad Bevan wedi dweud y bydd rhaid i 17,000 o bobl y flwyddyn rhoi’r gorau iddi. Felly, mae angen llawer iawn o gymorth. Mae angen targedu pobl ifanc yn benodol gyda hyrwyddwyr iechyd cymheiriaid hyfforddedig, gyda phresenoldeb cryf ar-lein a gwefan sydd wedi’i thargedu atynt.

It is important that help is available at the time the smoker decides to quit. I understand that, after phoning to ask for help, it can be eight weeks before you get help on a programme. Efforts should be made to try to reduce that wait and perhaps, when the Minister responds, she could say whether there is any way of doing that.

Mae’n bwysig bod help ar gael ar yr adeg y bydd yr ysmygwr yn penderfynu rhoi’r gorau iddi. Yr wyf yn deall, ar ôl ffonio i ofyn am gymorth, y gall fod yn wyth wythnos cyn y byddwch chi’n cael help ar raglen. Dylid gwneud ymdrech i geisio lleihau’r amser aros hwnnw ac efallai, pan fydd y Gweinidog yn ymateb, y gallai ddweud a oes unrhyw ffordd o wneud hynny.

In conclusion, there has been a great deal of progress, but we still have a way to go. Someone said earlier on that we should be bold. I think that we should continue to be bold.

I gloi, bu llawer o gynnydd, ond mae gennym ffordd i fynd. Dywedodd rhywun yn gynharach y dylem fod yn eofn. Credaf y dylem barhau i fod yn eofn.

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): I thank Members for their contributions. It has been a very interesting and supportive debate. The tobacco control action plan is a key element in achieving the vision of a healthy Wales set out in ‘Our Healthy Future’ and reflects the onus on prevention contained within the five-year vision for the NHS in ‘Together for Health’. The plan also builds on the programme of measures to discourage young people from starting to smoke, to support smokers who want to give up, and to promote smoke-free environments. It sets a vision of a smoke-free Wales in which the harm from tobacco is eradicated and, in particular, it aims to protect children from tobacco harm. It also aims to reduce health inequalities.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Diolchaf i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau. Bu’n ddadl ddiddorol a chefnogol iawn. Mae’r cynllun gweithredu rheoli tybaco yn elfen allweddol o gyflawni’r weledigaeth o Gymru iach a nodir yn ‘Ein Dyfodol Iach’ ac yn adlewyrchu’r pwyslais ar atal a welir yn ein gweledigaeth bum mlynedd ar gyfer y GIG yn ‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’. Mae’r cynllun hefyd yn adeiladu ar y rhaglen o fesurau i atal pobl ifanc rhag dechrau ysmygu, i gefnogi ysmygwyr sydd am roi’r gorau iddi, ac i hyrwyddo amgylcheddau di-fwg. Mae’n gosod gweledigaeth o Gymru ddi-fwg lle mae’r niwed a achosir gan dybaco wedi’i ddileu ac, yn benodol, mae’n ceisio amddiffyn plant rhag niwed tybaco. Mae hefyd yn ceisio lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd.

Elin Jones spoke to the Plaid Cymru amendment, and I think that, basically, what you are asking is why the Government is focusing on an awareness campaign on smoking in cars carrying children rather than going straight for a ban. Evaluations of smoking-cessation-focused mass media campaigns have indicated that such campaigns can build knowledge, educate the public, change key beliefs and attitudes, and increase calls to quit lines. Therefore, that can all contribute, along with other tobacco control programme elements, to overall decreases in tobacco consumption and increases in smoking cessation. Legislation to ban smoking in cars carrying children will be considered later in this five-year Assembly term if smoking levels do not reduce as a result of the campaign. I wish to make it very clear that I am not ruling out legislation, but I want to assess the impact of the campaign before making a commitment to introduce costly legislation.

Gwnaeth Elin Jones siarad am welliant Plaid Cymru, a chredaf, yn y bôn, mai’r hyn rydych yn gofyn yw pam mae’r Llywodraeth yn canolbwyntio ar ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth ar ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cludo plant yn hytrach na mynd yn syth am waharddiad. Mae gwerthusiadau o ymgyrchoedd yn y cyfryngau torfol sy’n canolbwyntio ar roi’r gorau i ysmygu wedi nodi y gall ymgyrchoedd o’r fath feithrin gwybodaeth, addysgu’r cyhoedd, newid credoau ac agweddau allweddol, a chynyddu’r galwadau i linellau cymorth i roi’r gorau iddi. Felly, gall hynny i gyd gyfrannu, ynghyd ag elfennau eraill o raglenni rheoli tybaco, at ostyngiadau cyffredinol yn y defnydd o dybaco a chynyddu’r nifer sy’n rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu. Caiff deddfwriaeth i wahardd ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cario plant ei hystyried yn ddiweddarach yn nhymor pum mlynedd y Cynulliad hwn os nad yw lefelau ysmygu yn lleihau o ganlyniad i’r ymgyrch. Dymunaf ei gwneud yn glir iawn nad wyf yn diystyru deddfwriaeth, ond hoffwn i asesu effaith yr ymgyrch cyn gwneud ymrwymiad i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth gostus.

Nick Ramsay: While I have sympathy with the idea of banning smoking in cars carrying a child, Minister, would you agree that on this point the Government motion has got it right? This sort of legislation would have greater cross-border implications than many other issues that have been dealt with. In travelling in a car in the area along the border between Wales and England, you could be both breaking the law and then not breaking the law within a short space of time. I think, therefore, that the motion has got this right, although I agree that there is a pressing need to do something about this issue of smoking in cars.

Nick Ramsay: Tra bod gennyf gydymdeimlad â’r syniad o wahardd ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cludo plant, Weinidog, a gytunwch chi fod cynnig y Llywodraeth, ar y pwynt hwn, wedi ei chael hi’n iawn? Byddai’r math hwn o ddeddfwriaeth yn cael mwy o oblygiadau trawsffiniol na llawer o faterion eraill yr ymdriniwyd â hwy. Wrth deithio mewn car yn yr ardal ar hyd y ffin rhwng Cymru a Lloegr, gallech fod yn torri’r gyfraith ac yna ddim yn torri’r gyfraith o fewn cyfnod byr o amser. Credaf, felly, fod y cynnig wedi cael hyn yn iawn, er y cytunaf fod angen dybryd i wneud rhywbeth am y mater hwn o ysmygu mewn ceir.

Lesley Griffiths: I agree with Nick Ramsay: the Government motion has got it right. As I said, I am not ruling legislation out, but I want to assess the impact of the campaign initially.

Lesley Griffiths: Cytunaf â Nick Ramsay: mae cynnig y Llywodraeth wedi’i chael hi’n iawn. Fel y dywedais, nid wyf yn diystyru deddfwriaeth, ond yr wyf am asesu effaith yr ymgyrch i ddechrau.

Kirsty Williams and Julie Morgan mentioned the smoking cessation database. I will be instructing my officials in the new year to set this up, and the implementation board will oversee and report back to me on progress.

Soniodd Kirsty Williams a Julie Morgan am y gronfa ddata i roi’r gorau i ysmygu. Byddaf yn cyfarwyddo fy swyddogion i sefydlu hyn yn y flwyddyn newydd, a bydd y bwrdd gweithredu’n goruchwylio ac yn adrodd yn ôl i mi am y cynnydd.

Kirsty Williams: Will you give timescales as to when you expect that reporting back to happen? As you can imagine, there is a great deal of pressure to do things differently in the NHS. If we are spending money on cessation schemes that are not working, then we need to put that resource into measures that do work for people. When can we expect to hear from you about the results of that review and the reporting back?

Kirsty Williams: A wnewch chi roi amserlenni ynghylch pryd rydych yn disgwyl i’r adrodd yn ôl hwnnw ddigwydd? Fel y gallwch chi ddychmygu, mae llawer iawn o bwysau i wneud pethau’n wahanol yn y GIG. Os ydym yn gwario arian ar gynlluniau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu nad ydynt yn gweithio, yna mae angen inni roi adnodd i mewn i fesurau sydd yn gweithio i bobl. Pryd y gallwn ni ddisgwyl clywed gennych am ganlyniadau’r adolygiad hwnnw a’r adrodd yn ôl?

Lesley Griffiths: Since I have been in post in this portfolio I have been looking at all the different programmes that we have and pulling them together. So, when we set up this implementation board early in the new year, I would expect it to report to me within six months. I commit to come back to the Chamber or to issue a written statement to Members to explain its progress.

Lesley Griffiths: Ers imi fod yn y swydd yn y portffolio hwn, bûm yn edrych ar y rhaglenni gwahanol sydd gennym a’u tynnu at ei gilydd. Felly, pan fyddwn yn sefydlu’r bwrdd gweithredu hwn yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd, byddaf yn disgwyl iddo adrodd i mi o fewn chwe mis. Yr wyf yn ymrwymo i ddod yn ôl i’r Siambr neu gyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig i Aelodau i egluro ei gynnydd.

Kirsty also referred to cessation programmes within the NHS setting, that is, for patients in hospital. I appreciate what you say about patients who are unwell, but I think that the NHS should be leading the way on this. When patients go in for elective surgery, when you look at what medication the patient is on and whether they are suitable for a general anaesthetic, that is the right time to look at this. It is a good time to make that positive step.

Cyfeiriodd Kirsty at raglenni rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu o fewn y GIG hefyd, hynny yw, ar gyfer cleifion yn yr ysbyty. Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi’r hyn a ddywedwch am gleifion sy’n sâl, ond credaf y dylai’r GIG arwain y ffordd ar hyn. Pan fydd cleifion yn mynd i gael llawdriniaeth ddewisol, pan fyddwch yn edrych ar ba feddyginiaeth y mae’r claf yn ei chymryd ac a ydynt yn addas ar gyfer anesthetig cyffredinol, dyna’r adeg iawn i edrych ar hyn. Mae’n amser da i gymryd y cam cadarnhaol hwnnw.

Keith Davies referred to young people and stopping them from smoking in the first place. We have several programmes through which young people can access help, such as the ASSIST peer support programme. In 2010, only 3 per cent of 13 to 14-year-old boys, and 6 per cent of girls in that age group, reported to be smoking weekly. So, we have seen a significant reduction in the prevalence of smoking among both girls and boys aged 15 to 16 since 1998, which shows that our programmes are working. You also referred to extending the smoking ban in hospital grounds. Again, this is an area where I think that the NHS should be an exemplar and leading the way. I would also like to perhaps consider a smoking ban in the grounds of GPs’ surgeries.

Cyfeiriodd Keith Davies at bobl ifanc a’u hatal rhag ysmygu yn y lle cyntaf. Mae gennym nifer o raglenni sy’n rhoi cymorth i bobl ifanc, fel y rhaglen cymorth cymheiriaid, ASSIST. Yn 2010, adroddodd dim ond 3 y cant o fechgyn 13 i 14 oed, a 6 y cant o’r merched yn y grŵp oedran hwnnw, eu bod yn ysmygu bob wythnos. Felly, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer yr achosion o ysmygu ymhlith merched a bechgyn 15 i 16 oed ers 1998, sy’n dangos bod ein rhaglenni yn gweithio. Cyfeiriasoch hefyd at ymestyn y gwaharddiad ar ysmygu ar dir ysbytai. Unwaith eto, mae hwn yn faes lle credaf y dylai’r GIG fod yn esiampl ac arwain y ffordd. Hoffwn hefyd efallai ystyried gwaharddiad ar ysmygu ar dir meddygfeydd meddygon teulu.

Several Members, including Sandy Mewies, Lindsay Whittle and William Graham, talked about why we should do more to assist people who want to stop smoking and to prevent the take-up of smoking in the first place. You all referred to the benefits that the NHS would achieve if we saw a reduction in the prevalence of smoking.

Soniodd nifer o Aelodau, gan gynnwys Sandy Mewies, Lindsay Whittle a William Graham, am pam y dylem wneud mwy i helpu pobl sy’n dymuno rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu ac i atal pobl rhag dechrau ysmygu yn y lle cyntaf. Gwnaethoch chi i gyd gyfeirio at y buddion y byddai’r GIG yn eu cyflawni pe buasem yn gweld gostyngiad yn nifer yr achosion o ysmygu.

Sandy talked poignantly about the issues that you and your brother and sister faced in having parents who smoked. I am not going to refer to your height at all—I have no idea whether that was significant—and, like you, I would like to pay tribute to our former colleague, Val Lloyd, for all the work that she did on this issue during her time in this place.

Soniodd Sandy yn ingol am y materion a wyneboch chi a’ch brawd a’ch chwaer yn sgîl bod yn blant i rieni a oedd yn ysmygu. Nid wyf am gyfeirio at eich taldra o gwbl—nid oes gennyf syniad a oedd hynny’n arwyddocaol—ac, fel chithau, hoffwn roi teyrnged i’n cyn gyd-Aelod, Val Lloyd, am y gwaith a wnaeth hi ar y mater hwn yn ystod ei chyfnod yn y lle hwn.

Julie Morgan referred to smoke-free residential mental health units, and we need to look at that group of people within health inequalities and address that. You also referred to prisons, which is a reserved matter, as you say. However, I mentioned in my opening speech that my officials work closely with the UK Government, because there are certain aspects of tobacco control that are not devolved to us, and we will be looking at issues around that.

Cyfeiriodd Julie Morgan at unedau iechyd meddwl preswyl di-fwg, ac mae angen inni edrych ar y grŵp hwnnw o bobl o fewn anghydraddoldebau iechyd a mynd i’r afael â hynny. Cyfeiriasoch hefyd at garchardai, sydd yn fater nad yw wedi’i ddatganoli, fel y dywedwch. Fodd bynnag, soniais yn fy araith agoriadol fod fy swyddogion yn gweithio’n agos gyda Llywodraeth y DU, oherwydd mae rhai agweddau ar reoli tybaco sydd heb eu datganoli i ni, a byddwn yn edrych ar y materion o amgylch hynny.

I thank the many health professionals, community organisations and members of the public who played an important part in developing the draft action plan during the consultation process. We have set a challenging target to reduce smoking prevalence in Wales, but those levels have already been achieved in other parts of the world, such as Australia and California. Our key stakeholders will have to deliver action at a local level if we are to drive down smoking prevalence in Wales. A separate delivery plan has been prepared that summarises all the actions for tobacco control and includes lead responsibility and timescales for stakeholders. That will facilitate clear and unambiguous accountability, and will assist the tobacco control implementation board to monitor progress and report to me on meeting the milestone of 20 per cent prevalence by 2016.

Diolch i’r nifer fawr o weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, sefydliadau cymunedol ac aelodau o’r cyhoedd sydd wedi chwarae rhan bwysig wrth ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu drafft yn ystod y broses ymgynghori. Rydym wedi gosod targed heriol i leihau lefelau ysmygu yng Nghymru, ond cyflawnwyd y lefelau hynny eisoes mewn rhannau eraill o’r byd, megis Awstralia a Chaliffornia. Bydd ein rhanddeiliaid allweddol yn gorfod cyflawni’r camau gweithredu ar lefel leol os ydym am ostwng lefelau ysmygu yng Nghymru. Mae cynllun cyflawni ar wahân wedi’i baratoi sy’n crynhoi’r holl gamau gweithredu ar gyfer rheoli tybaco ac yn cynnwys cyfrifoldeb arweiniol ac amserlenni ar gyfer rhanddeiliaid. Bydd hynny’n hwyluso atebolrwydd clir a diamwys, a bydd yn cynorthwyo’r bwrdd gweithredu ar reoli tybaco i fonitro cynnydd ac adrodd i mi ar gyrraedd y garreg filltir o 20 y cant erbyn 2016.

Several Members mentioned that the target of 16 per cent prevalence by 2020 is an ambitious target. I recognise that the number of quitters will have to increase significantly to achieve those targets, but it will be a significant step towards a smoke-free future for Wales.

Soniodd sawl Aelod bod y targed o 16 y cant erbyn 2020 yn darged uchelgeisiol. Yr wyf yn cydnabod y bydd rhaid i nifer y rhai sy’n rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu gynyddu’n sylweddol i gyrraedd y targedau hynny, ond bydd yn gam sylweddol tuag at ddyfodol di-fwg i Gymru.

4.45 p.m.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is that amendment 1 be agreed. Are there any objections? I see that there are. Therefore, voting on this item will be deferred until voting time.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cwestiwn yw bod gwelliant 1 yn cael ei dderbyn. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau? Gwelaf nad oes. Felly, gohirir pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of William Graham and amendment 4 in the name of Peter Black.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw William Graham a gwelliant 4 yn enw Peter Black.

Cynnig NDM4872 Jocelyn Davies

Motion NDM4872 Jocelyn Davies

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn gresynu wrth y nifer uwch o farwolaethau yn y gaeaf oherwydd y cynnydd yn nifer y bobl sy’n dioddef o dlodi tanwydd.

1. Regrets the rise in excess winter deaths due to increased fuel poverty.

2. Yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ddefnyddio’r holl bwerau sydd ganddi y gaeaf hwn i leihau nifer y marwolaethau yn y gaeaf.

2. Urges the Welsh Government to use all the powers at its disposal this winter to minimise winter deaths.

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adolygu ei strategaeth tlodi tanwydd yn sgil cynnydd diweddar mewn prisiau tanwydd, gan ganolbwyntio ar:

3. Calls on the Welsh government to revise its fuel poverty strategy in light of recent energy price rises, focusing on:

a. Ôl-ffitio stoc tai Cymru; a

a. Retro-fitting of the Welsh housing stock; and

b. Mynd i’r afael â diffyg sicrwydd mewn perthynas ag ynni drwy fuddsoddi mewn ynni adnewyddadwy, a buddsoddi mewn datblygu ‘sgiliau gwyrdd’ y sector adeiladu yng Nghymru, fel y cofnodwyd mewn papur diweddar ‘Skills for Eco-Refurbishment’.

b. Tackling energy insecurity through investment in renewable energy, and investment in developing the ‘green skills’ of the Welsh construction sector, as laid out in a recent paper ‘Skills for Eco-Refurbishment’.

Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Lord Elis-Thomas: I move the motion.

Byddaf yn canolbwyntio’n bennaf ar yr argymhelliad i greu swyddi gwyrdd i ymateb i’r sefyllfa tlodi tanwydd a chyflwr y stoc tai yng Nghymru. Mae’r cynnig hwn yn un ymarferol sy’n edrych ar yr argyfwng economaidd presennol o safbwynt y cyfleoedd sy’n cael eu cynnig a’r heriadau sy’n ein hwynebu.

I will be concentrating mainly on the recommendation to create green jobs in order to respond to the issue of fuel poverty and the condition of the housing stock in Wales. This motion is a practical one that looks at the current economic crisis from the point of view of the opportunities provided and the challenges that are facing us.

Tynnaf eich sylw at y gwaith a gomisiynais fel llefarydd gan Dr Calvin Jones o Brifysgol Caerdydd. Bydd ef yn adnabyddus i chi am iddo roi tystiolaeth i’n pwyllgor fel arbenigwr ar bolisi ynni. Mae ei waith yn canolbwyntio’n arbennig ar y math o raglen ymarferol y gellid ei defnyddio er mwyn creu swyddi.

I draw your attention to the work that I commissioned as spokesperson from Dr Calvin Jones of Cardiff University. He will be well-known to you because he gave evidence to our committee as an expert on energy policy. His work concentrates particularly on the kind of practical programme that could be put in place in order to generate jobs.

Mae swyddi gwyrdd yn werth mwy yn y tymor hir na swyddi confensiynol, oherwydd eu bod yn swyddi sy’n newid y modd y mae’r economi yn gweithio. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn sylweddoli nad yw stimwlws economaidd o werth parhaol yn y sefyllfa bresennol os nad yw’n un gwyrdd. O ran yr argymhelliad er mwyn delio â’r pwysau presennol o ran polisi ynni, mae ymateb drwy geisio creu swyddi gwyrdd yn allweddol.

Green jobs are of greater value in the long term than conventional jobs, because they are jobs that change the way in which the economy operates. It is important that we realise that economic stimulus is not of permanent value in the current situation unless it is a green stimulus. In talking of a recommendation to deal with the current pressures in terms of energy policy, responding by endeavouring to create green jobs is of crucial importance.

Os edrychwn ar y sefyllfa yng Nghymru, ac eithrio gogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr, mae gennym yr economi rhanbarthol sy’n dibynnu fwyaf ar ddwysedd carbon o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig ac Ewrop. Mae hynny’n cynnwys ein systemau cynhyrchu a’n dibyniaeth ar geir ar gyfer gwaith ac adloniant. Hefyd, yn ein heconomi ni, mae’r stoc tai yn ein cymdeithas mewn cyflwr gwael o hyd a bu amcangyfrif bod hyd at 40 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru yn wynebu tlodi tanwydd.

If we look at the situation in Wales, with the exception of the north-east of England, we have the regional economy that is most dependent on carbon intensity in the UK and Europe. That includes our production systems and our dependence on cars for work and leisure. Also, in our economy, the housing stock in our society is still in a poor condition and it is estimated that up to 40 per cent of the population of Wales are facing fuel poverty.

Mantais creu swyddi gwyrdd i ddelio â sefyllfa’r stoc tai yw bod ymyraethau o’r fath yn chwilio am arbedion ynni ac effeithlonrwydd ynni yn dibynnu ar lafur. Pan ydych yn mynd ati i drwsio eiddo mae’n rhaid gwneud hynny, yn amlwg, lle mae’r tai. Felly, mae pwyslais ar gynlluniau ymarferol yn ein dinasoedd mawr, y Cymoedd, a phentrefi a threfi gwledig. Mewn gwirionedd, yr hyn yr ydym yn galw amdano yw ymgais i ddatblygu sgiliau i gyfateb â rhaglenni Arbed a rhaglenni blaenorol y Llywodraeth.

The great advantage of creating green jobs to deal with the situation in our housing stock is that such interventions in seeking energy savings and energy efficiency are dependent on labour. When you start to retrofit properties, you have to do that, obviously, where the houses are. Therefore, there is an emphasis on practical plans in our large cities, the Valleys, and rural towns and villages. In reality, what we are calling for is an attempt to develop skills that are suitable for the Arbed schemes and the previous schemes put forward by the Government.

Gwendid sefyllfa’r diwydiant adeiladu yng Nghymru yw bod nifer fawr o gwmnïau bach heb y gallu technegol a rheolaethol i ymdopi â’r agenda gwyrdd. Mae cyfle yn y sefyllfa hon i wneud hynny drwy gryfhau a chynyddu sgiliau’r diwydiant adeiladu yng Nghymru a rhoi cymwysterau i bobl mewn sgiliau gwyrdd ar gyfer newid amgylchiadau tai pobl yng Nghymru drwy gynllun fel hwn.

The problem at the moment in the construction sector in Wales is that we have a number of small companies that do not have the technical and regulatory ability to cope with the green agenda. There is an opportunity in this situation to proceed by strengthening and increasing the skills of the construction industry in Wales and to provide qualifications in green skills in order to change the housing circumstances of people in Wales through such schemes.

Yr wyf wedi trafod y cynllun hwn gyda Dr Calvin Jones wrth gomisiynu’r gwaith ac ar ôl derbyn ei adroddiad—mae’r adroddiad ar gael fel papur atodol i’r drafodaeth hon—yn ogystal â thrafod y cynllun gyda’r sector addysg bellach yng Nghymru. Mae’r prif goleg yn y gogledd y mae gennyf gysylltiad ag ef, sef Coleg Llandrillo—sy’n cynnwys Coleg Meirion-Dwyfor ac a fydd yn uno â Choleg Menai cyn hir—yn awyddus i weld cynllun o’r fath yn cael ei weithredu. Mae’r coleg hwnnw o’r farn y gallai colegau addysg bellach drwy Gymru gyfrannu at gynllun o’r fath, yn ogystal â’r Ganolfan Dechnoleg Amgen ger Machynlleth, sydd eisoes yn darparu dosbarthiadau a hyfforddiant ar lefel uchel a chyrsiau tymor byr yn yr holl faes o baratoi ar gyfer yr economi gwyrdd.

I discussed this scheme with Dr Calvin Jones when commissioning the work and on receiving his report—the report is available as an appendix to the papers for today’s debate—and I have discussed it with the further education sector in Wales. The main college in north Wales with which I have a strong connection, namely Coleg Llandrillo, which includes Coleg Meirion-Dwyfor and is soon to merge with Coleg Menai, is eager to see the implementation of this kind of scheme. The college is of the opinion that FE colleges throughout Wales could contribute to such a programme. The same is true of the Centre for Alternative Technology near Machynlleth, which already provides classes and training at a high level as well as short-term courses in this whole area of preparing for a green economy.

Mae cost y cynllun hwn yn hollol ymarferol a fforddiadwy. Byddai sicrhau 1,000 o gredydau neu o bersonau wedi eu credydu ar gyfer gwaith o’r natur hwn yn costio £5.1 miliwn y flwyddyn yn ôl argymhellion Dr Calvin Jones. Felly, yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth a’r Gweinidog yn gallu ystyried y cynllun hwn o fewn y cyllid a ddaw inni o’r Deyrnas Unedig oherwydd dosrannu’r gyllideb. Nid ydym yn gwybod eto, fel y clywsom yn gynharach heddiw, faint fydd y cyllid hwnnw, ond yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd modd rhoi blaenoriaeth i gynllun fel hwn. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi derbyn copi o’r cynllun ac yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at ei ymateb. Felly, mae’n dda gennyf i gael agor y ddadl hon.

The cost of the scheme is entirely practical and affordable. Ensuring 1,000 credits or accredited persons for work of this kind would cost £5.1 million per annum according to the recommendations of Dr Calvin Jones. Therefore, I hope that the Government and the Minister will be able to consider this scheme within the funds that will come to us from the United Kingdom because of the budgetary consequentials. We do not yet know, as we heard earlier today, what the level of that funding will be, but I hope that it will be possible to prioritise schemes such as this one. The Minister has received a copy of the scheme and I look forward to hearing his response. Therefore, I am pleased to be able to open this debate.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham

Amendment 1 William Graham

Ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 3:

Add new sub point at end of point 3:

yr hyn sy’n achosi mwy o dlodi tanwydd ymysg cartrefi gwledig;

the causes of higher fuel poverty amongst rural households;

Gwelliant 2 William Graham

Amendment 2 William Graham

Ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 3:

Add new sub point at end of point 3:

cartrefi sy’n dlawd iawn o ran tanwydd nad ydynt yn gymwys ar gyfer Gwelliannau i’r Cartref o dan gynllun ‘Nyth’ Llywodraeth Cymru;

severe fuel poor households not eligible for Home Improvements under the Welsh Government’s ‘Nest’ scheme;

Gwelliant 3 William Graham

Amendment 3 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ymgorffori cynllun gweithredu’r Siarter Tlodi Tanwydd yn ei Strategaeth Tlodi Tanwydd.

Calls on the Welsh Government to incorporate the Fuel Poverty Charter action plan in its Fuel Poverty Strategy.

Mark Isherwood: I move amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of William Graham.

Mark Isherwood: Cynigiaf welliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw William Graham.

The 2008 Living in Wales survey reported 332,000 fuel poor households in Wales, 26 per cent of all households, and an increase of 198,000 households since 2004. National Energy Action Cymru now estimates that over 390,000 households are in fuel poverty in Wales, with a further 530,000 households at risk of becoming fuel poor.

Adroddodd arolwg Byw yng Nghymru 2008 fod 332,000 o aelwydydd sy’n dlawd o ran tanwydd yng Nghymru, 26 y cant o’r holl aelwydydd, a chynnydd o 198,000 o aelwydydd ers 2004. Mae Gweithredu Ynni Cenedlaethol Cymru bellach yn amcangyfrif bod dros 390,000 o aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd yng Nghymru, gyda 530,000 pellach o aelwydydd mewn perygl o fod yn dlawd o ran tanwydd.

Fuel poverty in rural areas is caused by a number of complex and interlinked factors compounded by a lack of independent information and formal assistance in off-gas-grid areas. Although urban fuel poverty generally aligns with social poverty, rural fuel poverty is more closely associated with the quality of housing stock and/or the household characteristics. It is difficult to engage successfully with often sparsely located rural communities, with community boundaries that do not always adhere to Government statistical geographical output areas. Furthermore, owing to the often isolated physical location of rural households, or their reluctance to admit that there is a problem, area-based deprivation indicators do not easily identify rural fuel poverty.

Mae tlodi tanwydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn cael ei achosi gan nifer o ffactorau cymhleth a chydgysylltiedig a ddwysawyd gan ddiffyg gwybodaeth annibynnol a chymorth ffurfiol mewn ardaloedd oddi ar y grid nwy. Er bod tlodi tanwydd trefol yn cyd-fynd yn gyffredinol â thlodi cymdeithasol, mae tlodi tanwydd gwledig yn fwy cysylltiedig ag ansawdd stoc tai a/neu nodweddion aelwydydd. Mae’n anodd ymgysylltu’n llwyddiannus â chymunedau gwledig sy’n aml ar wasgar, gyda ffiniau cymunedol nad ydynt bob amser yn cadw at ardaloedd allbwn daearyddol ystadegol y Llywodraeth. At hynny, oherwydd lleoliad ffisegol sy’n aml yn ynysig cartrefi gwledig, neu achos cyndynrwydd i gyfaddef bod yna broblem, nid yw dangosyddion amddifadedd ar sail ardal yn nodi tlodi tanwydd gwledig yn hawdd iawn.

I have therefore moved amendment 1, which calls on the Welsh Government to revise its fuel poverty strategy, focusing on the

Yr wyf felly wedi symud gwelliant 1, sy’n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adolygu ei strategaeth tlodi tanwydd, gan ganolbwyntio ar yr

‘the causes of higher fuel poverty amongst rural households’,

‘achosion o dlodi tanwydd uwch ymhlith aelwydydd gwledig’,

and also engaging with the private and voluntary sectors. It should be noted that NEA Cymru has been working with Calor Gas to assist off-grid households facing fuel poverty and to deliver the rural Welsh energy advisorship programme. In fact, I am sponsoring the 10 January report launch of the year two findings of this off-gas project and urge Members to attend.

a hefyd yn ymgysylltu â’r sectorau preifat a gwirfoddol. Dylid nodi bod NEA Cymru wedi bod yn gweithio gyda Nwy Calor i gynorthwyo aelwydydd oddi ar y grid sy’n wynebu tlodi tanwydd ac i ddarparu’r rhaglen gynghoriaeth ynni Cymru wledig. Yn wir, ar 10 Ionawr, yr wyf yn noddi lansiad adroddiad am ganfyddiadau ail flwyddyn y prosiect oddi-ar-y-grid-nwy hwn ac anogaf Aelodau i ddod.

One in five fuel poor households in Wales are now severely fuel poor, spending over 20 per cent of their income to stay warm. The link between fuel poverty and winter deaths is well established. New figures revealing a higher rate of people dying in winter in Wales than England should be cause for the Welsh Labour Government to revise its fuel poverty strategy. The Office for National Statistics study found that there were 1,900 excess winter deaths in Wales last winter, up from 1,690 the previous year. In addition, Wales has the highest winter mortality rate compared with all England’s regions. Further to that, under-65s in Wales had the highest excess winter mortality rate of any group in any region, when usually this applies to people aged 85 and over.

Mae un o bob pum aelwyd sy’n dlawd o ran tanwydd yng Nghymru yn awr mewn tlodi tanwydd difrifol, ac yn gwario dros 20 y cant o’u hincwm i gadw’n gynnes. Mae’r cysylltiad rhwng tlodi tanwydd a marwolaethau gaeafol wedi’i hen sefydlu. Dylai’r ffigurau newydd sy’n datgelu cyfradd uwch o bobl yn marw yn y gaeaf yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr beri i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru adolygu ei strategaeth tlodi tanwydd. Canfu astudiaeth y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol fod 1,900 o farwolaethau ychwanegol yn y gaeaf yng Nghymru y gaeaf diwethaf, i fyny o 1,690 y flwyddyn flaenorol. Yn ogystal, mae gan Gymru’r gyfradd uchaf o farwolaethau gaeafol o’i chymharu â holl ranbarthau Lloegr. Ymhellach at hynny, pobl sydd o dan 65 oed yng Nghymru sydd â’r gyfradd marwolaethau ychwanegol yn y gaeaf uchaf o unrhyw grŵp mewn unrhyw ranbarth, pan mae hyn yn berthnasol i bobl 85 oed a throsodd, fel arfer.

Seventy per cent of fuel poor households contain someone who works and, while those on the lowest incomes remain most susceptible to fuel poverty, there is also a much higher incidence in other income bands. I have therefore moved amendment 2, which calls on the Welsh Government to revise its fuel poverty strategy, focusing on,

Mae 70 y cant o aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd yn cynnwys rhywun sy’n gweithio ac, er bod rhai ar yr incwm isaf yn parhau i fod mwyaf agored i dlodi tanwydd, mae hefyd nifer uwch o lawer mewn bandiau incwm eraill. Yr wyf felly wedi cynnig gwelliant 2, sy’n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i adolygu ei strategaeth tlodi tanwydd, gan ganolbwyntio ar,

‘severe fuel poor households not eligible for Home Improvements under the Welsh Government’s “Nest” scheme’.

‘dlodi tanwydd sy’n ddifrifol wael nad yw’n gymwys ar gyfer Gwelliannau i’r Cartref o dan gynllun "Nyth" Llywodraeth Cymru’.

The UK Government is seeking to address the long-term causes of fuel poverty through its green deal energy efficiency programme. The energy company obligation, which is part of the green deal, will provide £1.3 billion each year for low-income households and those in hard-to-heat properties and, on 23 November, the UK Government launched its consultation on this. It is vital that the Welsh Government engages with this consultation to ensure that fuel poor households in Wales receive their full and fair share of this funding.

Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ceisio ymdrin ag achosion hirdymor tlodi tanwydd drwy ei rhaglen effeithlonrwydd ynni’r fargen werdd. Bydd rhwymedigaethau’r cwmni ynni, sydd yn rhan o’r fargen werdd, yn darparu £1.3 biliwn bob blwyddyn ar gyfer aelwydydd incwm isel a’r rhai mewn eiddo sy’n anodd ei wresogi ac, ar 23 Tachwedd, lansiodd Llywodraeth y DU ei hymgynghoriad ar hyn. Mae’n hanfodol bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymgysylltu â’r ymgynghoriad hwn i sicrhau bod aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd yng Nghymru yn derbyn eu cyfran lawn a theg o’r cyllid hwn.

It is therefore a concern that the Welsh Government’s fuel poverty ministerial advisory group has not met since August 2010, despite parallel groups in Scotland and England continuing. The warm home discount scheme is providing up to 2 million UK homes with a £120 discount on electricity bills. Unlike the winter fuel payment, this is targeted specifically at the fuel poor. Reduced winter fuel payments still provide £200 for those aged 60 to 79, and £300 for those aged 80 or older. UK Ministers have also permanently increased the cold weather payment from £8.50 to £25 for each week of very cold weather, which the previous UK Government had not planned to do.

Felly, mae’n destun pryder nad yw grŵp cynghori gweinidogol tlodi tanwydd Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cwrdd ers mis Awst 2010, er gwaethaf parhad grwpiau cyfochrog yn yr Alban a Lloegr. Mae’r cynllun disgownt cartref cynnes yn darparu hyd at 2 miliwn o gartrefi yn y DU â disgownt o £120 ar filiau trydan. Yn wahanol i’r taliad tanwydd gaeaf, mae hwn yn targedu’r rhai sy’n dlawd o ran tanwydd yn benodol. Mae taliadau gostyngedig tanwydd gaeaf yn dal i ddarparu £200 i’r rheini sy’n 60 i 79 oed, a £300 i’r rhai sy’n 80 oed neu’n hŷn. Mae Gweinidogion y DU hefyd wedi cynyddu’r taliad tywydd oer o £8.50 i £25 ar gyfer pob wythnos o dywydd oer iawn, rhywbeth nad oedd Llywodraeth flaenorol y DU yn bwriadu ei wneud.

David Rees: I have two points to raise. First, do you recognise that the drop in winter fuel payments will have an impact on certain individuals who are fuel poor? Secondly, the cold winter payments are calculated based on readings at weather stations located at certain points in Wales, and the temperatures in the Afan valley in particular, but also other valley areas, are not reflected in the temperature that is measured at St Athan.

David Rees: Mae gennyf ddau bwynt i’w codi. Yn gyntaf, a ydych yn cydnabod y bydd y gostyngiad yn y taliadau tanwydd gaeaf yn cael effaith ar unigolion penodol sydd yn dlawd o ran tanwydd? Yn ail, cyfrifir taliadau  gaeaf oer ar sail y darlleniadau mewn gorsafoedd tywydd a leolir mewn pwyntiau penodol yng Nghymru, ac nid yw’r tymheredd yng nghwm Afan yn benodol, nac yn ardaloedd eraill yn y Cymoedd chwaith, yn cael eu hadlewyrchu yn y tymheredd a fesurir yn Sain Tathan.

Mark Isherwood: I would certainly support any efforts to ensure that the technology is identifying the need, but I personally favour targeting the areas where the need is greatest, and where people are genuinely living in fuel poverty. That is a matter for the UK Government; all that we can do is present our views.

Mark Isherwood: Byddwn yn sicr yn cefnogi unrhyw ymdrechion i sicrhau bod y dechnoleg yn nodi’r angen, ond yn bersonol yr wyf o blaid targedu ardaloedd sydd â’r angen mwyaf, a lle mae pobl wirioneddol yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd. Mae hynny’n fater i Lywodraeth y DU; y cyfan y gallwn ei wneud yw cyflwyno ein barn.

The fuel poverty coalition believes that no-one in Wales should have to live in a cold home.

Mae’r gynghrair tlodi tanwydd yn credu na ddylai neb yng Nghymru orfod byw mewn cartref oer.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Conclude, please.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch, os gwelwch yn dda.

Mark Isherwood: Sorry?

Mark Isherwood: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Conclude, please.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Gorffennwch, os gwelwch yn dda.

Mark Isherwood: All right. It developed a fuel poverty charter to put the fuel poverty agenda back on track, calling for a detailed action plan setting out how and when—

Mark Isherwood: Iawn. Datblygodd siarter tlodi tanwydd i roi’r agenda tlodi tanwydd yn ôl ar y trywydd iawn, yn galw am gynllun gweithredu manwl sy’n nodi sut a phryd—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. You must finish now, Mark.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Rhaid ichi orffen yn awr, Mark.

I call on William Powell to move amendment 4, tabled in the name of Peter Black.

Galwaf ar William Powell i gynnig gwelliant 4, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Peter Black.

Gwelliant 4 Peter Black

Amendment 4 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn nodi bod llai o bobl wedi manteisio ar y brechlynnau ffliw tymhorol ymysg y grwpiau ‘mewn perygl’ o dan 65 oed, ac felly’n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi mesurau ar waith i gynyddu’r niferoedd sy’n cael y brechlyn ffliw tymhorol er mwyn atal un o brif achosion marwolaethau diangen dros y gaeaf.

Notes that there has been a decreased take-up of the seasonal flu vaccines for 'at risk' groups under the age of 65, and therefore calls on the Welsh Government to put measures in place to increase the take-up of the seasonal flu vaccine to prevent one of the main causes of excess winter deaths.

William Powell: I move amendment 4 in the name of Peter Black.

William Powell: Cynigiaf welliant 4 yn enw Peter Black.

I am very pleased to be taking part in this important debate here today. We shall be supporting amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of William Graham. Fuel poverty is fast becoming the issue of our time, with over 40 per cent of households in Wales living in fuel poor homes. The impact on households that suffer from fuel poverty can be extreme, with cold housing contributing to poor attainment among school pupils, poor health, and a rise in winter mortality rates. Twenty per cent of households in Wales are spending £1 in every £5 that they have on fuel to stay warm in winter. The Welsh Government has yet to reach its target of taking all vulnerable households out of fuel poverty, and that was set for 2010.

Yr wyf yn falch iawn o gael cymryd rhan yn y ddadl bwysig hon yma heddiw. Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 1, 2 a 3 yn enw William Graham. Mae tlodi tanwydd yn prysur ddod yn fater ein hoes, gyda dros 40 y cant o aelwydydd yng Nghymru yn byw mewn cartrefi sy’n dlawd o ran tanwydd. Gall yr effaith ar aelwydydd sy’n dioddef tlodi tanwydd fod yn eithafol, gyda thai oer yn cyfrannu at gyrhaeddiad gwael ymhlith disgyblion ysgol, iechyd gwael, a chynnydd mewn cyfraddau marwolaethau gaeaf. Mae 20 y cant o aelwydydd yng Nghymru’n gwario £1 o bob £5 sydd ganddynt ar danwydd i gadw’n gynnes yn y gaeaf. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru eto i gyrraedd ei tharged o gymryd yr holl aelwydydd sy’n agored i niwed allan o dlodi tanwydd, a gafodd ei osod ar gyfer 2010.

We have concerns about the current Nest scheme, especially given that new estimates suggest that 74 per cent of households in severe fuel poverty will not qualify for the help that they need. Fuel poverty is no longer confined to those on means-tested benefits. Households all across Wales, including those with two working adults, are now suffering from fuel poverty, and more must be done to assist them. We urge the Welsh Government to reassess the way it allocates funding in certain circumstances to help those in most need at the time when they are in need. There was also a lack of emergency funding in certain situations. For example, we are familiar with the boiler scrappage scheme, which has much to commend it, but if an old boiler breaks down unexpectedly, there is no coverage, as I understand it, for a replacement boiler to be put in place. We need to address that inconsistency. Mobilising emergency help is very important for the vulnerable during the winter period. They need the help when they are in a crisis situation.

Mae gennym bryderon ynghylch y cynllun Nyth presennol, yn enwedig o gofio bod amcangyfrifon newydd yn awgrymu na fydd 74 y cant o aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd difrifol yn gymwys am y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt. Nid yw tlodi tanwydd yn cael ei gyfyngu mwyach i’r rhai ar fudd-daliadau sy’n dibynnu ar brawf modd. Mae aelwydydd ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys rhai gyda dau oedolyn sy’n gweithio, bellach yn dioddef tlodi tanwydd, a rhaid gwneud mwy i’w helpu. Yr ydym yn erfyn ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ailasesu’r ffordd y mae’n dyrannu arian mewn rhai amgylchiadau i helpu’r rheini sydd fwyaf mewn angen ar yr adeg pan fyddant mewn angen. Hefyd, yr oedd diffyg cyllid brys mewn sefyllfaoedd penodol. Er enghraifft, yr ydym yn gyfarwydd â’r cynllun sgrapio boeleri, sydd â llawer i’w ganmol, ond os yw hen foeler yn torri i lawr yn annisgwyl, nid oes unrhyw beth ar gael, fel y deallaf, ar gyfer rhoi boeler newydd yn ei le. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r anghysondeb hwnnw. Mae rhoi cymorth brys ar waith yn hollbwysig i bobl sy’n agored i niwed yn ystod cyfnod y gaeaf. Mae angen y cymorth arnynt pan fyddant mewn sefyllfa argyfyngus.

Not only has fuel poverty not disappeared, but it is on the increase, as we have heard. The Welsh Government must continue to address the ways in which it deals with fuel poverty and excess winter deaths. While looking at housing, which is clearly one important aspect of this, we must also take on board other ways in which we can improve the nation’s health. While we support the Arbed scheme, which we see has gained an additional £3 million in funding as a result of the budget today, there are other concerns regarding those who live in fuel poverty, and other ways in which the Government can take urgent action. Last year, for example, we saw that there were less than 50 per cent of at-risk adults under the age of 65 vaccinated with the winter flu jab. Flu contributes to excess winter deaths and is more prevalent among those in poor quality housing.

Nid yn unig y mae tlodi tanwydd heb ddiflannu, ond mae ar gynnydd, fel y clywsom. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru barhau i roi sylw i’r ffyrdd y mae’n delio â thlodi tanwydd a marwolaethau ychwanegol yn y gaeaf. Wrth edrych ar dai, sy’n amlwg yn un agwedd bwysig ar hyn, rhaid inni hefyd ystyried ffyrdd eraill y gallwn wella iechyd y genedl. Er y cefnogwn y cynllun Arbed, a gwelwn ei fod wedi ennill £3 miliwn yn ychwanegol mewn cyllid o ganlyniad i’r gyllideb heddiw, mae yna bryderon eraill ynghylch y rheini sy’n byw mewn tlodi tanwydd, a ffyrdd eraill y gall y Llywodraeth weithredu ar frys. Y llynedd, er enghraifft, gwelsom fod yna lai na 50 y cant o oedolion o dan 65 oed sydd mewn perygl yn cael eu brechu â brechiad rhag ffliw’r gaeaf. Maer ffliw yn cyfrannu at farwolaethau ychwanegol yn y gaeaf ac yn fwy cyffredin ymysg y rhai sy’n byw mewn tai o ansawdd gwael.

5.00 p.m.

While improving homes must be priority, preventing death and ill-health in the most vulnerable is imperative. That can be addressed relatively swiftly, which is why we have tabled our amendment today.

Er bod rhaid i wella cartrefi fod yn flaenoriaeth, mae atal marwolaeth ac afiechyd ymhlith y mwyaf agored i niwed yn hollbwysig. Gall hynny gael sylw’n gymharol gyflym, a dyna pam yr ydym wedi cyflwyno ein gwelliant heddiw.

This year, we saw the Government piloting a scheme to increase the take-up of vaccines by allowing community pharmacies to administer them in Rhondda Cynon Taf and Blaenau Gwent, where take-up rates have historically been low. Yet, as many colleagues will be aware, the pilot programme was not fully supported by GPs, who feared that they would be left with a lot of stock that had already been paid for but was not used. I therefore urge the Minister to commit to work with his colleague the Minister for Health and Social Services to urge doctors and community pharmacies to adopt a more joined-up approach in the campaign for the take-up of winter flu vaccines. We must endeavour to reach the World Health Organization target of 75 per cent of those at risk to be vaccinated. Use of community pharmacies can remove pressure from doctors’ surgeries and allow otherwise healthy patients to access the jab there, outside office hours, given that GP surgeries might be less convenient for them.

Eleni, gwelsom y Llywodraeth yn treialu cynllun i gynyddu’r defnydd o frechlynnau drwy ganiatáu i fferyllfeydd cymunedol i’w gweinyddu yn Rhondda Cynon Taf a Blaenau Gwent, lle, yn hanesyddol, mae cyfraddau defnydd wedi bod yn isel. Eto, fel y bydd llawer o gydweithwyr yn ymwybodol, ni chefnogwyd y rhaglen beilot yn llawn gan feddygon teulu, a oedd yn ofni y caent eu gadael gyda llawer o stoc y talwyd amdani eisoes, ond heb ei ddefnyddio. Felly, anogaf y Gweinidog i ymrwymo i weithio gyda’i gyd-Weinidog y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i annog meddygon a fferyllfeydd cymunedol i fabwysiadu dull mwy cydgysylltiedig yn yr ymgyrch i annog pobl i gael brechlynnau rhag y ffliw yn y gaeaf. Rhaid inni ymdrechu i gyrraedd targed Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd o 75 y cant o’r rhai mewn perygl yn cael eu brechu. Gall defnyddio fferyllfeydd cymunedol dynnu pwysau oddi ar feddygfeydd meddygon a chaniatáu i gleifion sydd, fel arall, yn iach i gael y pigiad y tu allan i oriau swyddfa, o gofio y gallai meddygfeydd meddygon teulu fod yn llai cyfleus iddynt.

We are happy to support the motion and all of the Conservatives’ amendments. Anything that we can do to help Welsh families in this time of hardship must be done. Making homes warmer, safer and dryer for the winter months is a major priority for a healthier and more productive Wales.

Yr ydym yn hapus i gefnogi’r cynnig a gwelliannau’r Ceidwadwyr i gyd. Rhaid gwneud unrhyw beth y gallwn i helpu teuluoedd Cymru ar yr adeg hon o galedi. Mae gwneud cartrefi’n gynhesach, yn fwy diogel ac yn sychach ar gyfer misoedd y gaeaf yn flaenoriaeth o bwys ar gyfer Cymru iachach a mwy cynhyrchiol.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Hoffwn, yn y lle cyntaf, ategu yn llwyr yr hyn a ddywedodd Dafydd Elis-Thomas wrth agor y drafodaeth hon. Mae’r potensial ar gyfer creu swyddi gwyrdd yn botensial gwirioneddol mae’n rhaid inni geisio’i wireddu yng Nghymru. Ar ben hynny, yr ydym ar y blaen yn y gwaith o gynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy, a gobeithiwn y byddwn yn y sefyllfa cyn bo hir lle byddwn yn cynhyrchu mwy nag sydd ei angen arnom ni ein hunain.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: First of all, I would like to endorse fully what Dafydd Elis-Thomas said in opening the debate. The potential for creating green jobs is a real potential and is one that we must try to fulfil in Wales. Additionally, we are ahead of the game regarding the production of renewable energy, and we hope to be in a situation shortly where we will be producing more energy than we need ourselves.

Rhaid imi, serch hynny, fynegi pryder sydd wedi’i godi gan Blaid Cymru ers degawdau bellach. Er ein bod yn aml yn barod iawn i rannu’n hadnoddau naturiol gyda rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, ac, yn wir, i’w hallforio, nid ydym bob amser yn cael y gydnabyddiaeth ariannol haeddiannol am hynny. Gobeithiaf y bydd y Llywodraeth yma yng Nghaerdydd yn sicrhau, os gallwn wneud y gorau o’r cyfleoedd sydd gennym i ddefnyddio’n hadnoddau naturiol i greu ynni adnewyddadwy, y byddwn yn cael ein had-dalu yn gywir, fel ein bod yn gallu’i fuddsoddi yn yr economi, a sicrhau ei fod yn mynd at anghenion y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymdeithas.

However, I must express the concern that has been raised by Plaid Cymru for decades. While we are often very willing to share our natural resources with other parts of the United Kingdom, and, indeed, to export those resources, we are not always given the financial recognition that we deserve for doing so. I hope that the Government in Cardiff will ensure that, if we can make the most of the opportunities that we have to use our natural resources to generate renewable energy, we are properly reimbursed, so that we can invest it in the economy, and ensure that it goes to the poorest people in our society.

Mae tlodi tanwydd yn effeithio’n fwy ar Gymru nag ar rannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Yng Nghymru, mae incwm y pen yn is nag mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, ac yr ydym hefyd yn talu tua 10 y cant yn fwy ar gyfartaledd am ein hynni. Mae ein stoc tai, at ei gilydd, yn hŷn ac o ansawdd gwaeth nag mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae canran y tai sy’n agos at y rhwydwaith ynni yn is yng Nghymru nag mewn rhanbarthau eraill. Mae gennym hefyd boblogaeth sy’n heneiddio, yn ogystal â chanran uwch o bobl ag anabledd.

Fuel poverty impacts more upon Wales than other parts of the United Kingdom. In Wales, income per capita is lower than in other parts of the United Kingdom, and we also pay around 10 per cent more on average for our energy. Our housing stock is generally older and is of poorer quality than in other parts of the United Kingdom, and the percentage of homes close to the energy network is lower in Wales than in other regions. We also have an ageing population, as well as a higher percentage of people with a disability.

Felly, mae hon yn broblem wirioneddol yng Nghymru, ac, fel sydd newydd ei amlinellu gan William Powell, mae’n broblem sy’n cael effaith andwyol ar ansawdd bywyd pobl. Rhannaf rai, os nad y mwyafrif, o’r pryderon a gododd William Powell ynglŷn â’r math o gynlluniau sydd ar gael ar hyn o bryd i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymunedau yn gallu manteisio ar y cynlluniau hyn. Mae llawer o gynlluniau, er enghraifft, sy’n cynnig canran digon hael o’r gost o sicrhau bod tai yn cael eu hinsiwleiddio a bod modd i geisio arbed ynni. Fodd bynnag, os nad ydych mewn sefyllfa i dalu’r gost sylfaenol yn y lle cyntaf, ni allwch fanteisio ar y cynigion hynny. Tan yn ddiweddar iawn, yr oedd cyfle i bobl yng Nghymru, fel mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, fuddsoddi mewn ynni solar. Byddai hynny’n gostwng cost tanwydd. Wrth gwrs, yr oedd cost gosod y paneli solar hynny yn y lle cyntaf yn eithaf drud, er bod yr ad-daliad yn un sylweddol. Hyd yn oed i’r bobl hynny a oedd yn manteisio ar gynigion cymdeithasau tai a chynghorau i wneud y gwaith hwnnw drostynt, mae’r ffaith bod y tariff bellach wedi ei ostwng yn sylweddol iawn yn golygu, o bosibl, na fyddant yn gallu manteisio ar gael paneli solar ar eu tai, hyd yn oed yn rhad ac am ddim, i ostwng eu dibyniaeth ar ynni a gostwng y gost sylfaenol.

Therefore, this is a real problem in Wales, and, as William Powell has just outlined, it is a problem that has a detrimental effect on people’s quality of life. I share some, if not the majority, of the concerns raised by William Powell regarding the type of schemes that are now available to address these problems. We need to ensure that the poorest people within our communities are able to benefit from these schemes. There are many schemes that, for example, pay quite a generous proportion of the cost of insulating homes to save energy. However, if you are not in a position to pay the basic cost in the first place, you cannot take advantage of such offers. Until very recently, people in Wales, as in other parts of the UK, could invest in solar energy. That would reduce fuel costs. Of course, the cost of installing solar panels in the first place was quite high, even though the sum reimbursed was significant. Even for those people taking advantage of housing association and council schemes to do that work for them, the fact that the tariff has been significantly reduced could mean that they will not be able to take advantage of having solar panels installed, even when that is free of charge, in order to reduce dependency on energy and to reduce fuel costs.

Amcangyfrifir bod 26 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru eisoes mewn sefyllfa o dlodi tanwydd. Pan ydych yn ystyried bod cost tanwydd yn codi tuag 20 y cant ar gyfartaledd ar hyn o bryd, mae’r canran hwnnw yn mynd i godi’n sylweddol. Fel y dywedodd Dafydd, mae potensial enfawr yn y maes hwn, ond mae problemau gwirioneddol hefyd yn bodoli. Y cyfrifoldeb sydd arnom oll, ond yn bennaf ar y Llywodraeth, yw sicrhau bod y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymdeithas yn cael eu gwarchod rhag y costau mawr hyn.

It is estimated that 26 per cent of the population of Wales is already in fuel poverty. Given that the cost of fuel is increasing by some 20 per cent at the moment, that figure will increase significantly. As Dafydd said, there is huge potential in this area, but real problems also exist. The responsibility for each and every one of us, but mainly for the Government, is to ensure that the poorest in society are safeguarded from these huge costs.

Keith Davies: Efallai am y tro cyntaf, yr wyf yn mynd i gytuno â nifer o sylwadau Rhodri Glyn a William Powell. Dylem edrych ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, ac nid ar y dyfodol, oherwydd mae’r gaeaf wedi cyrraedd, gyda’r pwysau ac effeithiau a ddaw gyda Nadolig gwyn i’r henoed a’r rhai sy’n byw mewn tlodi tanwydd.

Keith Davies: For what might be the first time, I will agree with a number of the points made by Rhodri Glyn and William Powell. We should look at what is currently happening, and not to the future, because winter is upon us, with the pressure and effects of a white Christmas for the elderly and those in fuel poverty.

Bythefnos yn ôl, cyhoeddwyd datganiad gan y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ynghylch trefniadau i gadw’n gynnes yn ystod y gaeaf. Mae’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol hefyd yn annog cynllunio ar gyfer y tywydd oer sydd ar ddod. Cafwyd nifer o ymgyrchoedd i wneud hynny. Yn gyntaf, rhaid nodi gweithred y Llywodraeth i ddileu, cymaint â phosibl, tlodi tanwydd o bob cartref erbyn 2018. Ers 2007, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi gwario £86.5 miliwn ar gynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref. Er bod y setliad cyllid a gafwyd gan Lywodraeth San Steffan wedi bod yn dynn iawn, fel y clywsom yn gynharach, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi amddiffyn y cyllid hwnnw.

A fortnight ago, the Minister for Local Government and Communities made a statement on arrangements for keeping warm this winter. The Minister for Health and Social Services is also encouraging planning for the imminent cold weather. There have been a number of campaigns to that effect. First, we must note the Government’s action to eradicate fuel poverty, as much as possible, from all homes by 2018. Since 2007, the Government has spent £86.5 million on a home energy efficiency scheme. Although the financial settlement from the Westminster Government is very tight, as we heard earlier on, the Welsh Government is safeguarding that funding.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud ymrwymiad i gefnogi’r rhai sydd ar incwm isel neu sy’n agored i niwed i leihau eu biliau gwres drwy gynyddu effeithlonrwydd ynni yn y cartref. Erbyn heddiw, darparwyd cymorth i wella 100,000 o dai yng Nghymru. Yn Lloegr, cafwyd toriadau i wariant effeithlonrwydd ynni, â chanlyniadau i’r rhai mewn tlodi tanwydd ac sy’n agored i niwed. Drwy ddileu Consumer Focus, er enghraifft, cafwyd gwared ar hawl y bobl sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd i gael rhywun i siarad drostynt.

The Welsh Government is commited to supporting those on low incomes or who are vulnerable to reduce heating bills by increasing energy efficiency in homes. To date, assistance has been provided to improve 100,000 homes in Wales. In England, there have been cuts to energy efficiency spending, affecting those living in fuel poverty and the vulnerable. By abolishing Consumer Focus, for example, the body speaking on behalf of people in fuel poverty has been abolished.

O fewn 12 mlynedd, amcangyfrifir y bydd bron un o bob tri pherson yng Nghymru yn 60 oed neu’n hŷn. Erbyn 2031, bydd nifer y bobl sy’n 75 oed wedi cynyddu 76 y cant. Cyflwynodd Llywodraeth Lafur flaenorol y Deyrnas Unedig daliad tanwydd gaeaf. Fodd bynnag, mae’r cynnydd yn y taliadau hyn wedi cael ei ddileu. Eleni, bydd y taliad di-dreth blynyddol i helpu pobl i dalu am eu gwres dros fisoedd y gaeaf yn disgyn o £250 i £200 i’r rhai dros 60 oed, ac o £400 i £300 i’r rhai dros 80 oed. O ystyried effeithiau’r tywydd oer, mae angen pwysleisio effeithiau negyddol y camau uchod gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig.

In 12 years, it is estimated that nearly one in three people in Wales will be aged 60 or above. By 2031, the number of people aged 75 will have increased by 76 per cent. The previous Labour Government in the UK introduced a winter fuel payment. However, the increase in that payment has been abolished. This year, the annual tax-free payment to help people pay for heating over the winter months will fall from £250 to £200 for the over 60s, and from £400 to £300 for the over 80s. Bearing in mind the effects of cold weather, the negative impacts of these steps taken by the UK Government must be emphasised.

Ar gyfartaledd, ceir 27,000 o farwolaethau bob flwyddyn yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn ystod y gaeaf, gydag 80 y cant ohonynt yn cael eu hystyried i fod yn gysylltiedig â’r tywydd oer. Mae pobl hŷn, yn arbennig, mewn perygl, gan nad ydynt yn teimlo’r oerfel nes bod tymheredd eu cyrff yn disgyn. Mae mynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd yn parhau i fod yn brif amcan Llywodraeth Cymru. Y prif amcan yw dileu tlodi tanwydd erbyn 2018. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn gweithredu i helpu, er nad yw’n gallu rheoli ffactorau allanol fel incwm isel a phrisiau tanwydd. Prisiau tanwydd yw’r ffactor sy’n cael yr effaith fwyaf ar dlodi tanwydd. Beth mae Llywodraeth San Steffan yn ei wneud am hyn? Dim. Beth sydd gan y Llywodraeth hon i helpu? Mae gennym raglen Arbed i annog buddsoddiad cyfalaf ac i annog cwmnïau cyflenwi i chwarae rhan. Erbyn hyn, mae 6,000 o dai wedi manteisio ar y rhaglen, ac mae’r Llywodraeth wedi rhoi £3 miliwn yn ychwanegol o’r £38.9 miliwn o becyn ysgogiad ariannol, fel y soniodd William Powell gynharach.

On average, there are 27,000 winter deaths every year in the UK, 80 per cent of which are considered to be related to cold weather. Older people are particularly vulnerable, as they do not feel the cold until their body temperature falls. Addressing fuel poverty remains a priority for the Welsh Government. The main objective is to eradicate fuel poverty by 2018. The Government here is taking action to help, although it cannot control external factors such as low income and the price of fuel. The price of fuel is the biggest factor in fuel poverty. What is the Westminster Government doing about this? Nothing. What does this Government have to help? We have the Arbed programme, to encourage capital investment and to encourage suppliers to become part of this. To date, 6,000 homes have benefitted and the Government has given £3 million of the £38.9 million financial stimulus package, as William Powell said earlier.

Rhan arall o waith y Llywodraeth yw’r rhaglen effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, sef y cynllun gwaredu bwyleri, sydd wedi darparu gwelliannau i 25,000 o gartrefi. Gwariwyd £2.5 miliwn ar y rhaglen eleni. Hefyd, lansiwyd rhaglen Nyth gyda chyllid blynyddol o £18 miliwn. Mae’r rhaglen yn darparu cyngor a chefnogaeth i bawb yng Nghymru i leihau eu biliau tanwydd. Yr oedd datblygu rhaglen newydd a gwell i leihau tlodi tanwydd, a fydd yn targedu tai tlawd o ran tanwydd, yn brif weithred strategaeth tlodi tanwydd y Llywodraeth a gyhoeddwyd yn 2010. Gall Nyth yn awr ymateb yn gyflym ac, yn yr achosion gwaethaf, gall gyflawni’r gwaith o fewn pum diwrnod. Dengys y sawl enghraifft uchod fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymedig i leihau tlodi tanwydd a chyrraedd y targed o’i ddileu erbyn 2018. Yr wyf yn hapus i gefnogi cynnig Plaid Cymru i adeiladu ar y camau sydd gennym eisoes.

Another action taken by the Government is the home energy efficiency scheme, or the boiler scrappage scheme, which has provided improvements in 25,000 homes. A sum of £2.5 million has been spent on that scheme this year. Also, the Nest programme was launched, with an annual budget of £18 million. That programme provides advice and assistance for everyone in Wales in order to reduce fuel bills. The development of a new and better programme to reduce fuel poverty, targeting fuel-poor homes, was the Government’s main fuel poverty strategy announced in 2010. Nest can now respond quickly and, in the worst cases, carry out the work within five days. These examples demonstrate that the Welsh Government is committed to reducing fuel poverty and to reaching the target of eradication by 2018. I am happy to support the Plaid Cymru motion to build on the steps currently in place.

Vaughan Gething: As with others, I am pleased to contribute to the debate today. We all recognise that fuel poverty is a serious and complicated issue that is affected by low household income, rising fuel prices and the energy efficiency of each individual home. Although this body cannot guarantee people’s income levels or global fuel prices, we certainly can take steps to address fuel poverty by making homes more energy efficient. I welcome the Government’s commitment to supporting vulnerable people on low incomes to reduce their heating bills by increasing energy efficiency.

Vaughan Gething: Fel eraill, yr wyf yn falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw. Yr ydym oll yn cydnabod bod tlodi tanwydd yn fater difrifol a chymhleth a effeithir gan incwm isel, prisiau tanwydd yn codi ac effeithlonrwydd ynni pob cartref unigol. Er na all y corff hwn warantu lefelau incwm pobl neu brisiau tanwydd byd-eang, yn sicr gallwn gymryd camau i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd gan wneud cartrefi’n fwy effeithlon o ran ynni. Croesawaf ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i gefnogi pobl agored i niwed sydd ar incwm isel i leihau eu biliau gwresogi drwy gynyddu effeithlonrwydd ynni.

We have already heard from a number of people that approximately 26 per cent of households in Wales are already in fuel poverty. The recent announcement by fuel companies that they will increase their energy prices is likely to cost the average Welsh household approximately £190 a year. So, by the time we next look at our figures, we are likely to see even more households in fuel poverty. That was certainly the message produced in a recent study by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed gan nifer o bobl bod tua 26 y cant o aelwydydd yng Nghymru eisoes mewn tlodi tanwydd. Mae cyhoeddiad diweddar gan y cwmnïau tanwydd y byddant yn cynyddu eu prisiau ynni yn debygol o gostio tua £190 y flwyddyn ar gyfartaledd i aelwydydd yng Nghymru. Felly, erbyn y tro nesaf yr ydym yn edrych ar ein ffigurau ni, yr ydym yn debygol o weld hyd yn oed mwy o aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd. Yn sicr, dyna oedd neges astudiaeth ddiweddar gan y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllidol.

Although any price rises are frustrating for most of us, including those of us in the Chamber, many people are forced to live in cold and damp conditions in their homes. It really can be a matter of life and death, as is set out in the motion. Last year, the figures that I saw said that there are approximately 1,900 excess winter deaths in Wales.

Er bod unrhyw gynnydd mewn prisiau’n rhwystredig i’r rhan fwyaf ohonom, gan gynnwys ninnau sydd yn y Siambr, mae nifer o bobl yn cael eu gorfodi i fyw mewn amodau oer a llaith yn eu cartrefi. Mae wir yn gallu bod yn fater o fywyd a marwolaeth, fel y nodir yn y cynnig. Y llynedd, yn ôl y ffigurau a welais i mae tua 1,900 o farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf yng Nghymru.

We cannot avoid the impact of UK Government cuts. Cuts to benefits and, in particular, winter fuel allowances for pensioners mean that it really will be an additional struggle for many households that are already fuel poor to keep warm this winter. A chilling statistic is that, during cold spells, the poorest pensioners are likely to cut their food spending by 7 per cent in order to heat their homes. There really are choices about whether to eat or to put on the heating. Although the risk from fuel poverty and cold-related ill health apply to all people, older households and families with children are obviously the most vulnerable.

Ni allwn osgoi effaith toriadau Llywodraeth y DU. Mae toriadau i fudd-daliadau ac, yn benodol, lwfansau tanwydd y gaeaf ar gyfer pensiynwyr yn golygu y byddai wir yn ymdrech ychwanegol i nifer o aelwydydd sydd eisoes yn dlawd o ran tanwydd i gadw’n gynnes y gaeaf hwn. Mae’n ystadegyn brawychus bod y pensiynwyr tlotaf, yn ystod cyfnodau oer, yn debygol o dorri eu gwario ar fwyd gan 7 y cant er mwyn gwresogi eu cartrefi. Ceir dewisiadau gwirioneddol ynghylch  p’un ai i fwyta neu i droi’r system wresogi ymlaen. Er bod y risg o dlodi tanwydd a salwch sy’n gysylltiedig ag oerfel yn berthnasol i bawb, aelwydydd hŷn a theuluoedd â phlant yn amlwg sydd fwyaf agored i niwed.

Energy efficiency measures can make a huge difference and help people keep their heating costs down. However, it is also a sad fact that many homes that already have energy efficiency measures and that are already living in fuel poverty are likely to spend any savings on heating their homes. Far too many of the poorest households in fuel poverty already underheat their homes. So, energy efficiency gains are then taken up in exactly the same way by actually heating their homes to what we would consider to be a decent level.

Gall mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni wneud gwahaniaeth enfawr a helpu pobl i leihau eu costau gwresogi. Fodd bynnag, mae’n ffaith drist hefyd fod nifer o gartrefi sydd eisoes â mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni ac sydd eisoes yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd yn debygol o wario unrhyw arbedion ar wresogi eu cartrefi. Mae gormod o lawer o’r aelwydydd tlotaf mewn tlodi tanwydd eisoes yn tan wresogi eu cartrefi. Felly, defnyddir yr enillion effeithlonrwydd ynni hynny yn union yr un ffordd drwy wresogi eu cartrefi i’r lefel y byddem yn ei ystyried yn lefel weddus.

New homes are already more energy efficient, with the potential to be more so once building regulations are devolved. The biggest challenge that we face, as many of us know, is in the existing old housing stock, where most households in fuel poverty already live. I have many of those households in my consistency, as will many others. There are large areas of poorer owner-occupiers who already struggle to keep their homes warm.

Mae cartrefi newydd eisoes yn fwy effeithlon o ran ynni, gyda’r potensial i fod yn fwy felly unwaith y caiff rheoliadau adeiladu eu datganoli. Yr her fwyaf a wynebwn, fel y gŵyr llawer ohonom, yw’r stoc o hen dai sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd, lle mae’r rhan fwyaf o aelwydydd mewn tlodi tanwydd yn byw eisoes. Mae gennyf lawer o’r aelwydydd hynny yn fy etholaeth i, fel y bydd gan nifer o bobl eraill. Mae yna ardaloedd mawr lle mae perchen-feddianwyr tlotach sydd eisoes yn brwydro i gadw eu cartrefi’n gynnes.

The home energy efficiency scheme has already invested over £3 million in my constituency of Cardiff South and Penarth, helping well over 6,000 homes to be more energy efficient. We know that the Arbed scheme has seen an investment of some £60 million.

Mae’r cynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref eisoes wedi buddsoddi dros £3 miliwn yn fy etholaeth yn Ne Caerdydd a Phenarth, sy’n helpu dros 6,000 o gartrefi i fod yn fwy effeithlon o ran. Gwyddom fod y cynllun Arbed wedi gweld buddsoddiad o tua £60 miliwn.

5.15 p.m.

Vaughan Gething: However, there is still a real issue to do with the attitude of energy suppliers and whether we should have to ask them what their best rate is. I have recently confronted this with house moves and the like. When you look at the tariff to see whether you can understand it yourself, I find that I have to look very carefully and I still do not really understand it. I understand the total at the bottom of the page and what I am being asked to pay, but I could not honestly tell you what the rest of the bill means. I do not think that I am the only person in the Chamber who thinks that, and so many people who already live in fuel poverty will find an additional burden in trying to find what the best deal is. At present, there is no obligation on fuel companies to provide the best deal. Could you imagine walking into a shop and there being three or four different prices for the same goods and being told, ‘I will sell you this at the highest possible price and you have to try to find out what the best price is’?

Fodd bynnag, mae ymagwedd cyflenwyr ynni ac a ddylai fod yn rhaid inni ofyn iddynt beth yw eu cyfradd orau dal i fod yn drafferth wirioneddol. Yr wyf i wedi wynebu hyn yn ddiweddar gyda symud tŷ ac yn y blaen. Wrth edrych ar y tariff i weld p’un a gallwch ei ddeall eich hunan, mae’n rhaid imi edrych yn ofalus iawn ac nid wyf dal yn ei ddeall mewn gwirionedd. Deallaf y cyfanswm ar waelod y dudalen a’r hyn mae gofyn imi ei dalu, ond ni allaf ddweud wrthych, yn onest, beth y mae gweddill y bil yn ei olygu. Ni chredaf mai fi yw’r unig berson yn y Siambr sy’n credu hynny, a bydd ceisio canfod beth yw’r fargen orau yn faith ychwanegol i gynifer o bobl sydd eisoes yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes unrhyw orfodaeth ar gwmnïau tanwydd i ddarparu’r fargen orau. A allech ddychmygu cerdded i mewn i siop a gweld tri neu bedwar pris gwahanol ar gyfer yr un nwyddau a rhywun yn dweud wrthych, ‘Fe wnaf werthu hyn i chi ar y pris uchaf posibl ac mae’n rhaid ichi geisio darganfod beth yw’r pris gorau’?

I want to say a small word about the energy company obligation, the Green Deal. It could be a really positive thing, but there are still a number of concerns and problems with the way it has been set out. In particular, the ability energy suppliers will have to disconnect customers who cannot maintain payments is a real concern. I would rather see that money being targeted at our poorest households than at those with the ability to borrow money. As well as tackling the complexity of the energy targets that we already have, many others can do something practical in our constituencies by running energy advice surgeries. I will be running one again on 16 December in Splott, which is an area of significant fuel poverty.

Yr wyf am ddweud gair bach am y rhwymedigaeth cwmni ynni, y Fargen Werdd. Gallai fod yn beth cadarnhaol iawn, ond mae dal nifer o bryderon a phroblemau gyda’r modd y mae wedi’i gosod. Yn benodol, mae gallu cyflenwyr ynni i ddatgysylltu cwsmeriaid na allant gynnal taliadau yn bryder gwirioneddol. Byddai’n well gennyf weld yr arian hwnnw’n cael ei dargedu at ein haelwydydd tlotaf nag at y rhai sydd â’r gallu i fenthyca arian. Yn ogystal â mynd i’r afael â chymhlethdod y targedau ynni sydd gennym eisoes, gall nifer ohonom wneud rhywbeth ymarferol yn ein hetholaethau drwy redeg cymorthfeydd cyngor ynni. Byddaf yn rhedeg un eto ar 16 Rhagfyr yn y Sblot, sydd yn ardal o dlodi tanwydd sylweddol.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Conclude now, please.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Gorffennwch yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Vaughan Gething: I look forward to working with Government to undertake more action on behalf of our constituents.

Vaughan Gething: Edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda’r Llywodraeth i weithredu mwy ar ran ein hetholwyr.

Russell George: I thank Plaid for this debate today. I think that we would all agree that, compared to last year, we have had an incredibly mild autumn—possibly one of the warmest on record. However, the temperature over the past two days has certainly focused our minds on the problems that lie ahead for a third of Welsh homes. I would like to focus my contribution on rural fuel poverty, as figures from National Energy Action Cymru show that fuel poverty is twice as prevalent in rural areas as in urban areas in Wales. There is range of underlying contributing factors, which are complex, interlinked and often misunderstood by Government. It is difficult to engage successfully with rural communities, which are often sparsely located. Owing to the often isolated physical locations of rural households or their reluctance to admit there is a problem, area-based deprivation indicators do not easily identify rural fuel poverty.

Russell George: Diolch i Blaid Cymru am y ddadl hon heddiw. Credaf y byddem oll yn cytuno, o’i gymharu â llynedd, yr ydym wedi cael hydref anhygoel o ysgafn—o bosibl un o’r cynhesaf ar gofnod. Fodd bynnag, mae’r tymheredd dros y deuddydd diwethaf yn sicr yn gwneud inni ganolbwyntio ar y problemau sydd ar ddod i un rhan o dair o gartrefi Cymru. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio yn fy nghyfraniad ar dlodi tanwydd gwledig, gan fod ffigurau gan Weithredu Ynni Cenedlaethol Cymru yn dangos bod tlodi tanwydd ddwywaith mor gyffredin mewn ardaloedd gwledig ag mewn ardaloedd trefol yng Nghymru. Mae ystod o ffactorau sylfaenol yn cyfrannu, sy’n gymhleth, yn gydgysylltiedig ac yn aml yn cael eu camddeall gan Lywodraeth. Mae’n anodd ymgysylltu’n llwyddiannus â chymunedau gwledig, sydd yn aml wedi eu lleoli ar wasgar. Oherwydd lleoliadau aelwydydd gwledig sy’n aml yn ynysig neu eu hamharodrwydd i dderbyn bod problem, nid yw dangosyddion amddifadedd ar sail ardal yn nodi tlodi tanwydd gwledig yn hawdd.

One of the key challenges is the number of households in rural areas that are off the gas network. Around 206,000 homes—16 per cent of homes in Wales—are off the gas grid, and most of these are in rural areas. Of that number, more than half are in fuel poverty. Those householders rely on fuel such as heating oil, LPG, coal or wood to heat their homes. Some might say that, given the behaviour of some of the big six energy companies in the on-grid sector, they are perhaps better off staying off-grid. However, households that are off the grid generally pay more to heat their homes than those on the grid. For example, last winter, those households that rely on heating oil experienced very large increases in the cost of filling their tanks as the price of oil rose steeply. We saw an increase of 100 per cent in just a few weeks.

Un o’r heriau allweddol yw nifer yr aelwydydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig sydd oddi ar y rhwydwaith nwy. Mae tua 206,000 o gartrefi—16 y cant o gartrefi yng Nghymru—oddi ar y grid nwy, ac mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r rhain mewn ardaloedd gwledig. O’r nifer hwnnw, mae mwy na hanner mewn tlodi tanwydd. Mae’r deiliaid tai hynny’n dibynnu ar danwydd fel olew cynhesu, nwy petrolewm hylifedig, glo neu goed i wresogi eu cartrefi. Gallai rhai ddweud, o ystyried ymddygiad rhai o’r chwe chwmni ynni mawr yn y sector ar y grid, efallai ei bod yn well iddynt aros oddi ar y grid. Fodd bynnag, mae cartrefi sydd oddi ar y grid yn gyffredinol yn talu mwy i wresogi eu cartrefi na’r rhai sydd ar y grid. Er enghraifft, y gaeaf diwethaf, profodd yr aelwydydd hynny sy’n dibynnu ar olew cynhesu gynnydd mawr iawn yn nghost llenwi eu tanciau wrth i bris olew gynyddu’n serth. Gwelsom gynnydd o 100 y cant mewn ychydig wythnosau.

The fact that there is no energy regulator for off-grid fuels is an added problem. It allows poor customer service and dubious price practices to thrive. There have been difficulties with the Government support schemes. To date, a number of those schemes have not been particularly effective in reaching rural off-grid areas. I know from what others have already said today that there are issues with regard to the Nest scheme, and I certainly have a great deal of case work on such issues in my constituency office. There needs to be a co-ordinated approach across all sectors, encompassing social as well as technical solutions. The best way to achieve that, as Mark Isherwood alluded to, would be to incorporate the fuel poverty charter action plan in the current fuel strategy.

Mae’r ffaith nad oes unrhyw rheoleiddiwr ynni ar gyfer tanwyddau sydd oddi ar y grid yn broblem ychwanegol. Mae’n caniatáu gwasanaeth cwsmeriaid gwael ac arferion pris amheus i ffynnu. Bu anawsterau o ran cynlluniau cymorth y Llywodraeth. Hyd yn hyn, ni fu nifer o’r cynlluniau hynny’n arbennig o effeithiol yn cyrraedd ardaloedd gwledig oddi ar y grid. Gwn o’r hyn y mae eraill eisoes wedi’i ddweud heddiw fod trafferthion o ran cynllun Nyth, ac yn sicr, mae gennyf llawer iawn o waith achos ar drafferthion o’r fath yn fy swyddfa etholaeth. Mae angen cael dull gweithredu cydgysylltiedig ar draws pob sector, gan gwmpasu atebion cymdeithasol yn ogystal â thechnegol. Y ffordd orau i gyflawni hynny, fel y crybwyllodd Mark Isherwood, fyddai ymgorffori cynllun gweithredu’r siarter tlodi tanwydd yn y strategaeth tanwydd presennol.

There also needs to be strong collaboration with private businesses in the sector. Calor’s rural fuel poverty programme is a good example of businesses working directly at a local level and applying bespoke solutions to fit specific community and householder needs, rather than applying a one-size-fits-all approach.

Hefyd, mae angen cydweithredu cryf â busnesau preifat yn y sector. Mae rhaglen tlodi tanwydd gwledig Calor yn enghraifft dda o fusnesau’n gweithio’n uniongyrchol ar lefel leol ac yn rhoi atebion sydd wedi’u teilwra ac yn diwallu anghenion penodol  y gymuned a deiliaid tai, yn hytrach na defnyddio dull gweithredu unffurf.

Finally, there needs to be more encouragement for off-grid householders to take up microgeneration opportunities. These households could make ideal early-adopters of bespoke and community microgeneration initiatives, providing that the right economic model can be found, especially for those on low incomes.

Yn olaf, mae angen mwy o anogaeth i ddeiliaid tai oddi ar y grid i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd microgynhyrchu. Gallai’r aelwydydd hyn fod yn fabwysiadwyr cynnar delfrydol o fentrau microgynhyrchu pwrpasol cyhyd ag y gellid canfod y model economaidd cywir, yn arbennig ar gyfer y rheini sydd ar incwm isel.

David Rees: I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate, although I must admit that most of what I was going to say has been said already by my colleagues. Keith Davies has already mentioned the fact that people are looking forward to Christmas and the festive season, and some are even looking forward to snow and a white Christmas, but there are many families who do not look forward to that, because of the bitter cold that it brings. I ask everyone here today to go home one bitterly cold night and switch off the heating, do not put your fires on, sit in your kitchen with perhaps one gas burner on and see how it feels for a night. You should experience how that feels. We might be aware of the problem, but we do not experience it because we are fortunate. However, some people experience that every night. That is what we need to address. We need to tackle those issues.

David Rees: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon, er mae’n rhaid imi gyfaddef bod y rhan fwyaf o’r hyn yr oeddwn yn mynd i ddweud eisoes wedi’i ddweud gan fy nghyd-Aelodau. Mae Keith Davies eisoes wedi sôn am y ffaith bod pobl yn edrych ymlaen at dymor y Nadolig, ac mae rhai hyd yn oed yn edrych ymlaen at eira a Nadolig gwyn, ond ceir llawer o deuluoedd sydd ddim yn edrych ymlaen at hynny, oherwydd yr oerfel chwerw sy’n dod yn ei sgîl. Gofynnaf i bawb yma heddiw i fynd adref un noson oer arw a diffodd y gwres, peidio â throi’ch tanau ymlaen, ac eistedd yn eich cegin, efallai gydag un llosgwr nwy ymlaen, a gweld sut mae’n teimlo am noson. Dylech brofi sut mae hynny’n teimlo. Efallai inni fod yn ymwybodol o’r broblem, ond nid ydym yn ei phrofi oherwydd yr ydym yn ffodus. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai pobl yn profi hynny bob nos. Dyna beth sydd angen ein sylw. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny.

We have to accept that fuel poverty has an impact on health. The situations in which many of our people live unfortunately cause problems. There are three root causes: low incomes, poor housing and high energy prices. We usually find that those on low incomes reside in some of the worst housing and cannot afford the necessary investment to improve energy efficiency in their homes. They are suffering throughout this process.

Rhaid inni dderbyn bod tlodi tanwydd yn cael effaith ar iechyd. Mae’r sefyllfaoedd y mae nifer o’n pobl yn byw ynddynt yn anffodus yn achosi problemau. Mae yna dri rheswm sydd wrth wraidd y rheini: incwm isel, tai gwael a phrisiau ynni uchel. Fel arfer, yr ydym yn canfod bod y rheini sydd ar incwm isel yn byw mewn rhai o’r tai gwaethaf ac ni allant fforddio’r buddsoddiad angenrheidiol i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni yn eu cartrefi. Maent yn dioddef drwy gydol y broses hon.

There are some factors that we can deal with. Vaughan Gething and Keith Davies have already mentioned the Arbed and Nest schemes, and the action that the Government has taken to improve fuel efficiency in people’s homes. However, there are outside influences that we cannot do anything about, unfortunately, such as the continuing increase in fuel prices, Westminster Government welfare cuts, which I will come on to in a minute, stagnating wages—we heard in the autumn statement that public sector wages will stagnate further—and we have also seen the feed-in tariff being cut. That does not affect only those who can afford solar panels; it also affects community projects that were relying upon those—community projects that were working for some of the poorest communities in Wales. They have been stopped because it is no longer viable to take on those projects.

Ceir rhai ffactorau y gallwn ddelio â hwy. Mae Vaughan Gething a Keith Davies eisoes wedi sôn am gynlluniau Arbed a Nyth, a’r camau a gymerodd y Llywodraeth i wella effeithlonrwydd tanwydd yng nghartrefi pobl. Fodd bynnag, ceir dylanwadau o’r tu allan na allwn wneud unrhyw beth amdanynt, yn anffodus, fel y cynnydd parhaus mewn prisiau tanwydd, toriadau i fudd-daliadau lles Llywodraeth San Steffan y deuaf atynt mewn munud, cyflogau sy’n aros yn eu hunfan—clywsom yn natganiad yr hydref y bydd cyflogau’r sector cyhoeddus yn aros yn eu hunfan ymhellach—ac yr ydym hefyd wedi gweld y tariff cyflenwi trydan yn cael ei dorri. Mae hynny’n effeithio nid yn unig y rheini a all fforddio paneli solar; mae hefyd yn effeithio ar brosiectau cymunedol a oedd yn dibynnu arnynt—prosiectau cymunedol a oedd yn gweithio dros rai o’r cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru. Maent wedi’u stopio oherwydd nid yw’n hyfyw mwyach i fanteisio ar y prosiectau hynny.

I would like to make a couple of points on the changes to welfare benefits. Professor Steve Fothergill of Sheffield Hallam University has undertaken a review of the impact of the welfare changes. We might want to think about the effect that this will have. The recommendation is that 30,000 people will be taken out of the benefits system. Those who might have been just above the level of fuel poverty will lose income and fall below that level. There will be an increase in the number of people being hit by fuel poverty because of these welfare reforms. Do not hide that and try to say that it is about saving money or that is has to be done to make things fair; it is hitting vulnerable people. It is the party on the other side of the Chamber that is doing this. We cannot forget that.

Hoffwn wneud ychydig o bwyntiau ar y newidiadau i fudd-daliadau lles. Mae’r Athro Steve Fothergill o Brifysgol Sheffield Hallam wedi cynnal adolygiad o effaith y newidiadau i’r system les. Efallai y byddem am feddwl am yr effaith a gaiff hyn. Yr argymhelliad yw y bydd 30,000 o bobl cael eu cymryd allan o’r system fudd-daliadau. Bydd y rhai sydd efallai wedi bod ychydig yn uwch na’r lefel tlodi tanwydd yn colli incwm ac yn disgyn yn is na’r lefel honno. Bydd cynnydd yn nifer y bobl sy’n cael eu taro gan dlodi tanwydd oherwydd y diwygiadau lles hyn. Peidiwch â chuddio hynny a cheisio dweud ei fod ynglŷn ag arbed arian neu fod yn rhaid ei wneud i wneud pethau’n deg; mae’n taro pobl sy’n agored i niwed. Y blaid ar ochr arall y Siambr sy’n gwneud hyn. Ni allwn anghofio hynny.

Vaughan also mentioned tariffs. We have to encourage the fuel companies to look at the tariffs and the information that they present. I am pleased that British Gas has started to take that on board. It is reducing the number of tariffs that it is offering. Unfortunately, a consequence of that is that it is getting rid of its cheapest tariff. However, it is a start, because I, for one, do not know which is the cheapest tariff for me. Vaughan was quite right to say that it is very difficult to work your way through all of those tariffs. We need to address this and we need to work with the UK Government to improve this situation.

Hefyd, soniodd Vaughan am dariffau. Rhaid inni annog y cwmnïau tanwydd i edrych ar y tariffau a’r wybodaeth maent yn ei chyflwyno. Yr wyf yn falch bod Nwy Prydain wedi dechrau ystyried hynny. Mae’n lleihau nifer y tariffau mae’n ei gynnig. Yn anffodus, canlyniad hynny yw ei fod yn cael gwared ar ei dariff rhataf. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fan cychwyn, oherwydd ni wn i, yn bersonol, beth yw’r tariff rhataf i mi. Yr oedd Vaughan yn iawn i ddweud ei bod yn anodd iawn i weithio’ch ffordd drwy’r holl dariffau hynny. Mae angen inni fynd i’r afael â hyn ac mae angen inni weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i wella’r sefyllfa hon.

Simon Thomas: On your point about the availability of tariffs, as your colleague Vaughan Gething said, the cheapest tariffs are available only to those with internet access and a bank account that can take direct debits. They are not the poorest people in our society.

Simon Thomas: Ynghylch eich pwynt am argaeledd tariffau, fel y dywedodd eich cyd-Aelod Vaughan Gething, mae’r tariff rhataf ond ar gael i’r rhai sydd â mynediad i’r rhyngrwyd a chyfrif banc sy’n gallu cymryd debydau uniongyrchol. Nid y bobl dlotaf yn ein cymdeithas ydynt.

David Rees: I agree absolutely, and that is why we need to look at what the tariffs offer and to whom they are offered. It is important, but we have to work with the UK Government on that, because it is a matter of working with the energy companies to do that.

David Rees: Cytunaf yn llwyr, a dyna pam mae angen inni edrych ar beth y mae’r tariffau’n ei gynnig ac i bwy y cânt eu cynnig. Mae’n bwysig, ond rhaid inni weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar hynny, oherwydd mae’n fater o weithio gyda’r cwmnïau ynni i wneud hynny.

I have one final point. We have forgotten one thing today: we must say a big ‘thank you’ to many charities, groups and individuals who work tirelessly in those communities to help people who are in fuel poverty. Without some of those people, there would be many more falling under the line, and, unfortunately, many more paying the ultimate price of death in the winter.

Mae gennyf un pwynt olaf. Yr ydym wedi anghofio un peth heddiw: rhaid inni ddweud ‘diolch’ wrth lawer o elusennau, grwpiau ac unigolion syn gweithio’n ddiflino yn y cymunedau hynny i helpu pobl sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd. Heb rhai o’r bobl hynny, byddai llawer yn cwympo o dan y llinell, ac, yn anffodus, llawer mwy yn talu’r pris eithaf o farwolaeth yn y gaeaf.

Jenny Rathbone: My quarrel with the Conservatives is that when they talk about health, they are talking about hospitals. They never stop going on about how we are not spending enough money on health, by which they mean hospitals, when they should be focusing on the causes of ill health, one of which is fuel poverty. Therefore, if the Conservatives here are worried about people’s health, they should talk to the Conservative UK Government about why it cut the winter fuel allowance from £400 to £300 for the over 80s, and from £250 to £200 for the over 60s. That allowance has been proven to be one of the most effective measures for ensuring that elderly people spend money on keeping themselves warm in the winter. The consequence of not keeping warm in the winter is that those people turn up in hospital. That cut, and the 50 per cent cut in the feed-in tariff, is a huge disbenefit to the population at large, and particularly to those who are struggling with increased fuel bills.

Jenny Rathbone: Achos fy anghydfod  gyda’r Ceidwadwyr yw pan maent yn sôn am iechyd, maent yn sôn am ysbytai. Nid ydynt byth yn rhoi’r gorau i draethu am sut nad ydym yn gwario digon o arian ar iechyd, a thrwy hynny maent yn golygu ysbytai, pan ddylent fod yn canolbwyntio ar achosion afiechyd, ac un ohonynt yw tlodi tanwydd. Felly, os yw’r Ceidwadwyr yma’n poeni am iechyd pobl, dylent siarad â Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU ynghylch pam y torrodd y lwfans tanwydd gaeaf o £400 i £300 ar gyfer y rhai dros 80, ac o £250 i £200 ar gyfer rhai dros 60 oed. Profodd y lwfans hwnnw i fod yn un o’r mesurau mwyaf effeithiol ar gyfer sicrhau bod pobl oedrannus yn gwario arian ar gadw eu hunain yn gynnes yn y gaeaf. Y canlyniad o beidio â chadw’n gynnes yn y gaeaf yw bod y bobl hynny’n troi i fyny yn yr ysbyty. Mae’r toriad hwnnw, a’r toriad o 50 y cant yn y tariff cyflenwi trydan, yn anfantais enfawr i’r boblogaeth yn gyffredinol, ac yn enwedig i’r rhai sy’n cael trafferth gyda biliau tanwydd cynyddol.

I would like to commend a project that has been funded by Arbed. I had the pleasure of visiting the project yesterday with the Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development and the Minister for Finance. The project is in Bryn Celyn in Pentwyn, which is one of the poorest areas in Wales in terms of income poverty. Like many housing estates, it now has mixed ownership. Some properties are privately owned and some are tenanted. It is a very good example of the Welsh Government working with the private sector and local authorities to deliver warm homes for everyone on that estate: £2.2 million is ensuring that all of those homes are being insulated on the outside, as there are no cavity walls to insulate. Together with new boilers, that means that there will be a massive improvement in the energy efficiency of these homes, and therefore a reduction in fuel bills. The residents to whom we spoke were hugely enthusiastic about this scheme and how it has improved the look of the area, as well as energy efficiency. That is the way forward in tackling climate change.

Hoffwn i gymeradwyo prosiect sydd wedi’i ariannu gan Arbed. Cefais y pleser o ymweld â’r prosiect ddoe gyda Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy a’r Gweinidog Cyllid. Mae’r prosiect ym Mryn Celyn ym Mhentwyn, sef un o ardaloedd tlotaf Cymru o ran tlodi incwm. Fel llawer o ystadau tai, bellach mae ganddo berchnogaeth gymysg. Mae rhai eiddo dan berchnogaeth breifat a rhai â thenantiaid. Mae’n enghraifft dda iawn o Lywodraeth Cymru’n gweithio gyda’r sector preifat ac awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu cartrefi cynnes i bawb ar yr ystâd honno: mae £2.2 miliwn yn sicrhau bod pob un o’r cartrefi hynny wedi’u cael eu hinswleiddio ar y tu allan, gan nad oes unrhyw waliau ceudod i’w hinswleiddio. Ynghyd â boeleri newydd, mae hynny’n golygu y bydd gwelliant enfawr yn effeithlonrwydd ynni’r cartrefi hyn, ac felly gostyngiad yn y biliau tanwydd. Yr oedd y trigolion y gwnaethom siarad â hwy’n frwdfrydig iawn ynghylch y cynllun hwn a sut mae wedi gwella golwg yr ardal, yn ogystal ag effeithlonrwydd ynni. Dyna’r ffordd ymlaen o ran mynd i’r afael â newid yn yr hinsawdd.

In the budget debate earlier, Rhodri Glyn Thomas wanted to know what the Welsh Government was doing to create jobs. This scheme is creating jobs. We spoke to apprentices—plasterers, labourers and so forth—whose jobs have been created as a result of this fantastic Arbed scheme. They are learning new skills, and they are going to be guaranteed further work as a result of the Arbed scheme. I am ever hopeful that we will be able to use the Arbed scheme to insulate all of the homes in this area of high deprivation. These are the homes that will be affected most by rising fuel prices. Therefore, I very much commend the Arbed project, and I hope that we will be able to continue it.

Yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb yn gynharach, yr oedd Rhodri Glyn Thomas am wybod beth roedd Llywodraeth Cymru’n ei wneud i greu swyddi. Mae’r cynllun hwn yn creu swyddi. Gwnaethom siarad â phrentisiaid—plastrwyr, gweithwyr ac ati—y crëwyd eu swyddi o ganlyniad i’r cynllun Arbed gwych hwn. Maent yn dysgu sgiliau newydd, a chânt warant o ragor o waith o ganlyniad i gynllun Arbed. Yr wyf yn fythol obeithiol y byddwn yn gallu defnyddio cynllun Arbed i inswleiddio holl gartrefi’r ardal hon o amddifadedd uchel. Dyma’r cartrefi a gaiff eu heffeithio fwyaf gan brisiau tanwydd cynyddol. Felly, cymeradwyaf brosiect Arbed yn fawr iawn, a gobeithiaf y bydd yn gallu parhau.

The Minister for Environment and Sustainable Development (John Griffiths): I will start by welcoming what I believe to be a very important and timely debate, and the opportunity to discuss excess winter deaths and the actions that the Welsh Government is taking to help tackle fuel poverty in Wales. I would like to thank all Members who have contributed for the points that they made.

Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd a Datblygu Cynaliadwy (John Griffiths): Dechreuaf drwy groesawu’r hyn y credaf sy’n ddadl bwysig ac amserol iawn, a’r cyfle i drafod marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf a’r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru’n eu cymryd i helpu i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd yng Nghymru. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu am y pwyntiau a wnaethpwyd ganddynt.

To provide some context for the debate, in Wales, the provisional figure for excess winter deaths in 2010-11 is 1,900. That is an increase on the previous winter, when the number of additional deaths was 1,690, but it is a decrease on 2008-09 figure of 2,470. There is a graph that shows considerable fluctuation from year to year. When we talk about excess winter deaths, it is important to understand what we mean by this term. The term ‘excess deaths’ refers to the difference between the number of deaths in winter months compared to in summer months. We might expect that, in the UK, with our relatively mild climate, we would have lower rates of excess deaths than countries that experience prolonged ‘deep freeze’ conditions, such as Russia or the Scandinavian countries.

Er mwyn darparu ychydig o gyd-destun ar gyfer y ddadl, yng Nghymru, y ffigur dros dro ar gyfer marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf yn 2010-11 yw 1,900. Mae hynny’n gynnydd ar y gaeaf blaenorol, pan oedd nifer y marwolaethau ychwanegol yn 1,690, ond mae'’ ostyngiad ar ffigur 2008-09 o 2,470. Mae graff sy’n dangos cryn amrywiad o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Pan soniwn am farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf, mae’n bwysig deall beth a olygwn. Mae’r term ‘marwolaethau ychwanegol’ yn cyfeirio at y gwahaniaeth rhwng nifer y marwolaethau yn y gaeaf o’i gymharu ag ym misoedd yr haf. Gallem ddisgwyl, yn y DU, gyda’n hinsawdd cymharol fwyn, byddai gennym gyfraddau is o farwolaethau ychwanegol na gwledydd sy’n profi amodau estynedig o ‘rewi dwfn’, fel Rwsia neu’r gwledydd Llychlynnaidd.

5.30 p.m.

However, that is not the case; those countries have significantly lower levels of excess winter deaths than the UK. Just to give Members a wider context, higher rates of excess winter deaths occur in countries such as Portugal and Spain. Obviously, there are some counterintuitive elements to what happens in particular countries. It is thought, in fact, that part of the paradox is that, in countries that have prolonged deep-freeze winters that are much more predictable, their populations are much more geared up to the winter conditions, and the predictability of those winters make it easier to change personal behaviour and to make structural adaptations.

Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n wir; mae gan y gwledydd hynny lefelau sylweddol is o farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf na’r DU. I roi’r cyd-destun ehangach i Aelodau, ceir cyfraddau uwch o farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf mewn gwledydd fel Portiwgal a Sbaen. Yn amlwg, mae rhai elfennau sy’n groes i’r graen am yr hyn sy’n digwydd mewn gwledydd penodol. Credir, mewn gwirionedd, mai rhan o’r paradocs yw bod poblogaethau gwledydd sydd yn cael gaeafau rhew dwfn hirion sy’n llawer mwy rhagweladwy yn llawer parotach ar gyfer amodau’r gaeaf, ac mae natur ragweladwy’r gaeafau hynny yn ei gwneud yn haws i newid ymddygiad personol ac i wneud addasiadau strwythurol.

Clearly, when it comes to excess winter deaths, the picture is a complex one, but whichever way you look at it, living in a cold home is an important factor, as are outdoor temperatures, behaviour and the level of disease, particularly influenza.

Yn amlwg, mae’n ddarlun cymhleth gyda marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf, ond pa ffordd bynnag yr ydych yn edrych arno, mae byw mewn cartref oer yn ffactor pwysig, fel y mae tymheredd yr awyr agored, ymddygiad a lefel clefydau, yn enwedig y ffliw.

In his recent interim report for the UK Government, Professor John Hills looked at fuel poverty, and he uses a figure of around 10 per cent of excess winter deaths possibly being attributable to fuel poverty. Obviously, the points that Members made about fuel price rises are relevant—I meet with the energy companies regularly, and I have made the sorts of points that Members have mentioned, about the need for much simpler and easier to understand tariffs, the need to do more to address fuel poverty, and making it easy to switch suppliers. Of course, Ofgem is very relevant to these issues as well. I will continue to make those points.

Yn ei adroddiad interim diweddar i Lywodraeth y DU, edrychodd yr Athro John Hills ar dlodi tanwydd, a defnyddia ffigur o tua 10 y cant o farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf y gellir eu priodoli o bosibl i dlodi tanwydd. Yn amlwg, mae’r pwyntiau a wnaeth Aelodau am y cynnydd mewn prisiau tanwydd yn berthnasol—byddaf yn cwrdd â’r cwmnïau ynni yn rheolaidd, ac yr wyf wedi gwneud y mathau o bwyntiau y mae Aelodau wedi’u crybwyll ynghylch yr angen am dariffau llawer symlach a haws i’w ddeall, yr angen i wneud mwy i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd, a’i gwneud yn hawdd newid cyflenwyr. Wrth gwrs, mae Ofgem yn berthnasol iawn i’r materion hyn hefyd. Byddaf yn parhau i wneud y pwyntiau hynny.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I am grateful to you for giving way. Minister, have you considered discussions with your counterparts at Westminster on the possibility of ensuring that energy companies do not have the ability to cut off people’s supply, and to place upon them the same kind of restrictions that apply to the water industry, so that supplies cannot be cut off?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar ichi am ildio. Weinidog, a ydych chi wedi ystyried cael trafodaethau gyda’ch cymheiriaid yn San Steffan ynghylch y posibilrwydd o sicrhau nad yw cwmnïau ynni yn gallu torri cyflenwad pobl, ac i osod yr un math o gyfyngiadau arnynt ag sy’n berthnasol i’r diwydiant dŵr, fel na ellir torri cyflenwadau?

John Griffiths: I can confirm that such discussions have taken place, and they will continue. The disparity with the situation for the water industry is informative. Those discussions will go on and, as ever, there are many issues involved. If we could be clearer and more intelligent in identifying people who are in fuel poverty, it would very much help in addressing the issues. Whatever the cause of fuel poverty, we must do all we can to address the issues, and whatever the wider causes of excess winter deaths, we must address those as well.

John Griffiths: Gallaf gadarnhau bod trafodaethau o’r fath wedi digwydd, a byddant yn parhau. Mae’r gwahaniaeth gyda’r sefyllfa yn y diwydiant dŵr yn addysgiadol. Bydd y trafodaethau hynny yn bwrw ymlaen ac, fel erioed, mae llawer o faterion yn rhan ohonynt. Pe gallem fod yn gliriach ac yn fwy deallus o ran adnabod y bobl sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd, byddai o gymorth gwirioneddol wrth fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Beth bynnag yw achos tlodi tanwydd, mae’n rhaid i ni wneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, a beth bynnag fo achosion ehangach marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf, mae’n rhaid i ni fynd i’r afael â hwy hefyd.

In terms of the fuel poverty coalition, we are very pleased to work with it in moving forward. We have revised our fuel poverty strategy; I am working with my colleague Carl Sargeant to ensure that we integrate fuel poverty into the general effort to tackle poverty. Placing fuel poverty at the centre of Welsh Government action is going to be very important indeed.

O ran y gynghrair tlodi tanwydd, yr ydym yn falch iawn i weithio gyda hi wrth symud ymlaen. Yr ydym wedi diwygio ein strategaeth tlodi tanwydd; yr wyf yn gweithio gyda’m cyd-Weinidog Carl Sargeant i sicrhau ein bod yn integreiddio tlodi tanwydd yn yr ymdrech gyffredinol i fynd i’r afael â thlodi. Bydd rhoi tlodi tanwydd wrth galon y camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd yn wir yn bwysig iawn.

Nest is a very important aspect of addressing these issues. It is expected to help 15,000 households a year with advice and support to help to reduce fuel bills and to help with around 4,000 packages to make homes more energy efficient. Compared to the old home energy efficiency scheme, the new scheme is very much about all-encompassing assistance that provides advice and support and a referral for everybody who makes contact with it. It is also about rural areas and properties that are off mains gas. So, it has widened the help available, which will address issues that Members have mentioned. It is still early days for Nest, but already, over 3,000 households have been referred for energy improvement packages, and more than 700 households that were not eligible for energy improvement packages have been referred to other schemes, such as free or subsidised loft and cavity wall insulation.

Mae Nest yn agwedd bwysig iawn o fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Disgwylir iddi helpu 15,000 o gartrefi’r flwyddyn gyda chyngor a chymorth i helpu lleihau biliau tanwydd a helpu gydag oddeutu 4,000 o becynnau i wneud cartrefi yn fwy effeithlon o ran ynni. O’i gymharu â’r hen gynllun effeithlonrwydd ynni cartref, mae’r cynllun newydd yn cael ei yrru gan gymorth hollgynhwysol sy’n darparu cyngor a chefnogaeth a chyfeiriad i bawb sy’n ymgysylltu ag ef. Mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag ardaloedd gwledig ac eiddo nad ydynt wedi’u cysylltu â’r prif gyflenwad nwy. Felly, mae wedi ehangu’r cymorth sydd ar gael, a fydd yn rhoi sylw i faterion y mae Aelodau wedi sôn amdanynt. Mae’n dal i fod yn gynnar o ran Nest, ond eisoes mae dros 3,000 o gartrefi wedi cael eu cyfeirio at becynnau gwella ynni, ac mae mwy na 700 o gartrefi nad oeddent yn gymwys i gael pecynnau gwella ynni wedi cael eu cyfeirio at gynlluniau eraill, fel insiwleiddio llofftydd a waliau ceudod am ddim neu â chymhorthdal.

I was very pleased that many Members mentioned the Arbed scheme, as it is very significant to our efforts. I have been very pleased to visit Arbed schemes, as Jenny Rathbone mentioned. I was very impressed indeed when householders told me of the benefits to the whole area in terms of the uplift that it gives people to have improved properties, but also in terms of help with fuel bills and help with warmer houses, and people told me directly of the benefit to their health of living in warmer homes. If their fuel bills are lower, it frees up money to spend on other things and helps the local economy. It helps to address climate change. It is a benefit to small and medium-sized enterprises and is working up green skills. Therefore, it addresses many of our greatest priorities.

Yr oeddwn yn falch iawn y soniodd llawer o Aelodau am gynllun Arbed, gan ei fod yn bwysig iawn i’n hymdrechion. Yr wyf wedi bod yn falch iawn i ymweld â chynlluniau Arbed, fel y crybwyllodd Jenny Rathbone. Yr oeddwn wir yn llawn edmygedd pan ddywedodd deiliaid tai wrthyf am y manteision i’r ardal gyfan o ran yr hwb mae cael tai gwell yn ei roi i bobl, ond hefyd o ran cymorth gyda biliau tanwydd a chymorth gyda thai cynhesach, a dywedodd pobl wrthyf yn uniongyrchol am y fantais i’w hiechyd o fyw mewn cartrefi cynhesach. Os yw eu biliau tanwydd yn is, mae’n rhyddhau arian i’w wario ar bethau eraill ac yn helpu’r economi leol. Mae’n helpu i fynd i’r afael â newid yn yr hinsawdd. Mae’n fudd i fusnesau bach a chanolig eu maint ac mae’n datblygu sgiliau gwyrdd. Felly, mae’n mynd i’r afael â llawer o’n blaenoriaethau pennaf.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas mentioned green skills, Dr Calvin Jones’s report and organisations such as the Centre for Alternative Technology in Machynlleth. We are pleased to look at developments in Wales, look at reports and see how we can incorporate those into policy. We have a number of important initiatives, such as the delivering low-carbon skills project, Pathways to Apprenticeships incorporating green skills, and the green business skills forum, so there is much happening on this front.

Crybwyllodd Dafydd Elis-Thomas sgiliau gwyrdd, adroddiad Dr Calvin Jones a sefydliadau fel y Ganolfan Dechnoleg Amgen ym Machynlleth. Yr ydym yn falch o edrych ar ddatblygiadau yng Nghymru ac adroddiadau a gweld sut y gallwn eu cynnwys mewn polisïau. Mae gennym nifer o fentrau pwysig, fel y prosiect cyflenwi sgiliau carbon isel, Llwybrau at Brentisiaethau yn ymgorffori sgiliau gwyrdd, a’r fforwm sgiliau busnes gwyrdd, felly mae llawer yn digwydd yn y maes hwn.

While this winter is an important aspect of our efforts, I am pleased to report to Members that we have seen improvements in the uptake of the flu vaccine compared with the previous year. As of 23 November, the take up of the vaccine is higher than at the same point in 2010. That is the case for people aged over 65 and also for those groups that are particularly vulnerable. Therefore, we have improvements that address the amendment put down to this motion. I will work with colleagues in the health department in taking matters forward, as suggested by Members.

Er bod y gaeaf hwn yn agwedd bwysig o’n hymdrechion, yr wyf yn falch i adrodd wrth Aelodau ein bod wedi gweld gwelliannau yn y nifer sy’n manteisio ar y brechlyn ffliw o’i gymharu â’r flwyddyn flaenorol. Ar 23 Tachwedd mae’r nifer sydd wedi manteisio ar y brechlyn yn uwch nag ar yr un adeg yn 2010. Mae hynny’n wir am bobl dros 65 oed a hefyd y grwpiau hynny sy’n arbennig o agored i niwed. Felly, mae gennym welliannau sy’n mynd i’r afael â’r gwelliant a gyflwynwyd i’r cynnig hwn. Byddaf yn gweithio gyda chydweithwyr yn yr adran iechyd wrth gymryd materion ymlaen, fel yr awgrymodd Aelodau.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I see that my time is rapidly drawing to an end—[Laughter.] What I meant was that my time in responding to this debate is coming to an end. We will continue to prioritise all our efforts and work to tackle fuel poverty and excess winter deaths in Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, yr wyf yn gweld bod fy amser yn prysur ddirwyn i ben—[Chwerthin.]  Yr hyn oeddwn i’n ei olygu oedd bod fy amser yn ymateb i’r ddadl hon yn dod i ben. Byddwn yn parhau i flaenoriaethu ein holl ymdrechion a gweithio i fynd i’r afael â thlodi tanwydd a marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf yng Nghymru.

Leanne Wood: We have been talking about fuel poverty and excess winter deaths since I was first elected to this Assembly in 2003. I know from conducting research in 2003 that it had been talked about considerably before that time as well. According to 2008 figures, 26 per cent of households in Wales were in fuel poverty. Let us be in no doubt, fuel poverty causes illness, pushing costs on to the health service—a point that was well made by Jenny Rathbone—and it causes death. If illness and death along with fuel poverty on the part of more than a quarter of Welsh households is not enough to take radical action, let me give you some more reasons: high unemployment, poor quality housing stock, climate change and peak oil are all good reasons to introduce a comprehensive home retrofitting programme. Retrofitting homes is a labour intensive activity and the skills required to carry out this work are currently limited. The proposal in Dr Calvin Jones’s paper to upskill people is a first vital step of a mass refurbishment programme.

Leanne Wood: Yr ydym wedi bod yn siarad am dlodi tanwydd a marwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf ers i mi gael fy ethol yn gyntaf i’r Cynulliad hwn yn 2003. Gwn o gynnal ymchwil yn 2003 y cafodd ei drafod gryn dipyn cyn yr amser hwnnw hefyd. Yn ôl ffigurau 2008, yr oedd 26 y cant o gartrefi yng Nghymru mewn tlodi tanwydd. Nid oes amheuaeth bod tlodi tanwydd yn achosi salwch, yn gwthio costau ar y gwasanaeth iechyd—pwynt a wnaeth Jenny Rathbone yn dda—ac mae’n achosi marwolaeth. Os nad yw salwch a marwolaeth ynghyd â thlodi tanwydd mewn mwy na chwarter o gartrefi Cymru yn ddigon o achos dros gymryd camau radical, gadewch i mi roi rhywfaint mwy o resymau i chi: diweithdra uchel, stoc tai o ansawdd gwael, newid yn yr hinsawdd ac olew brig. Maent i gyd yn rhesymau da i gyflwyno rhaglen ôl-osod cartrefi cynhwysfawr. Mae ôl-osod cartrefi yn weithgaredd llafurddwys ac mae’r sgiliau sydd eu hangen i wneud y gwaith hwn yn gyfyngedig ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r cynnig ym mhapur Dr Calvin Jones i uwchsgilio pobl yn gam hanfodol cyntaf o raglen adnewyddu dorfol.

I will now address the remarks of the speakers in the debate. Mark Isherwood talked of winter fuel payments and put forward the Tories’ position on targeting. Needless to say, we fundamentally disagree with the Tories on that. We do not think that cutting winter fuel payments and benefits will help people in fuel poverty.

Byddaf yn awr yn troi fy sylw at sylwadau’r siaradwyr yn y ddadl. Soniodd Mark Isherwood am daliadau tanwydd gaeaf a chyflwyno safiad y Torïaid ar dargedu. Afraid dweud, yr ydym yn anghytuno’n sylfaenol gyda’r Torïaid ar hynny. Nid ydym yn credu y bydd torri taliadau tanwydd gaeaf a budd-daliadau yn helpu pobl mewn tlodi tanwydd.

William Powell talked about how many households in fuel poverty do not qualify for help under existing schemes. I agree with that, and that is why this whole policy area needs a rethink. With energy prices rising fast, more people who do not qualify for help now will fall into fuel poverty in the future. Therefore, we need a much more comprehensive programme of retrofitting now, which should be available to a much wider group of households.

Soniodd William Powell am sut mae llawer o gartrefi mewn tlodi tanwydd ddim yn gymwys i gael cymorth o dan y cynlluniau presennol. Yr wyf yn cytuno â hynny, a dyna pam mae angen ailfeddwl yr holl faes polisi hwn. Gyda phrisiau ynni yn codi ar garlam, bydd mwy o bobl nad ydynt yn gymwys i gael help yn awr yn disgyn i dlodi tanwydd yn y dyfodol. Felly, mae angen rhaglen lawer mwy cynhwysfawr o ôl-osod arnom yn awr, a dylai fod ar gael i grŵp o gartrefi ehangach o lawer.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas emphasised Wales’s potential for the creation of green jobs and our amazing potential for renewable energy. He argued that the benefits should be realised by people in Wales, which they are not at the moment. Rhodri, as have others, has pointed out the need for those on the lowest incomes to benefit from cheaper energy as our renewable energy production increases. This will be more difficult to achieve now that the feed-in tariff has been substantially reduced.

Pwysleisiodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas botensial Cymru ar gyfer creu swyddi gwyrdd a’n potensial anhygoel ar gyfer ynni adnewyddadwy. Dadleuodd mai pobl yng Nghymru a ddylai wireddu’r buddion, ond nid felly mae ar hyn o bryd. Tynnodd Rhodri, fel  eraill, sylw at yr angen i’r bobl ar yr incwm isaf elwa ar ynni rhatach wrth i ni gynhyrchu mwy o ynni adnewyddadwy. Bydd hyn yn anos ei gyflawni yn awr fod y tariff cyflenwi trydan wedi cael ei ostwng yn sylweddol.

Keith Davies talked about the millions of pounds that have already been spent on fuel poverty measures, but the numbers of fuel poor increase with every price increase. So, I am sure that we could all agree that the price rises at recent levels are totally unsustainable. Yes, Keith, we can agree that the latest cuts by the Westminster Government will make the situation even worse.

Soniodd Keith Davies am y miliynau o bunnoedd sydd eisoes wedi cael eu gwario ar fesurau tlodi tanwydd, ond cynyddu mae’r nifer mewn tlodi tanwydd gyda phob cynnydd mewn pris. Felly, yr wyf yn siŵr y gallem i gyd gytuno bod lefelau diweddar y codiadau mewn pris yn gwbl anghynaladwy. Ie, Keith, gallwn gytuno y bydd y toriadau diweddaraf gan Lywodraeth San Steffan yn gwneud y sefyllfa’n waeth byth.

Vaughan Gething further developed that argument in outlining the reasons as to why the situation will get worse. He outlined the problems that people face from the energy companies. I have my own views about the appropriateness or otherwise of public utilities being run by private companies, but that is a debate that we will have to keep for another day.

Datblygodd Vaughan Gething y ddadl honno ymhellach, gan amlinellu’r rhesymau pam y bydd y sefyllfa yn gwaethygu. Amlinellodd y problemau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu gyda’r cwmnïau ynni. Mae gennyf fy marn fy hun am ba mor briodol neu fel arall yw bod cwmnïau preifat yn rhedeg cyfleustodau cyhoeddus, ond mae honno’n ddadl y bydd yn rhaid ei chadw ar gyfer diwrnod arall.

Russell George talked about the additional difficulties faced by householders in rural areas who are off-grid. Those arguments are well made and accepted by Plaid Cymru. He also said that more needs to be done to encourage home microgeneration, but he failed to mention that his Government in London has cut the feed-in tariff, which will make that prospect much more difficult.

Soniodd Russell George am yr anawsterau ychwanegol a wynebir gan ddeiliaid tai mewn ardaloedd gwledig sydd oddi ar y grid. Cafodd y dadleuon hynny eu gwneud yn dda ac mae Plaid Cymru yn eu derbyn. Dywedodd hefyd fod angen gwneud mwy i annog microgynhyrchu mewn cartrefi, ond ni soniodd fod ei Lywodraeth yn Llundain wedi torri’r tariff cyflenwi trydan, a fydd yn gwneud y posibilrwydd hwnnw yn llawer mwy anodd.

David Rees outlined the reality of fuel poverty and the real effects that it has on real people. He also referred to Professor Fothergill’s report on the effects of benefit cuts, which is well worth a read if Members have not already done so.

Amlinellodd David Rees realiti tlodi tanwydd a’i effeithiau gwirioneddol ar bobl go iawn. Cyfeiriodd hefyd at adroddiad yr Athro Fothergill ar effeithiau toriadau budd-daliadau, sydd yn bendant werth ei ddarllen os nad yw Aelodau wedi gwneud hynny eisoes.

Jenny Rathbone mentioned that the Arbed scheme has created jobs. It has created jobs and it is a good scheme—it was a ‘One Wales’ scheme—but it is not a new scheme. The point that we have been making about an economic stimulus is that we need new jobs and new programmes now.

Soniodd Jenny Rathbone fod cynllun Arbed wedi creu swyddi. Mae wedi creu swyddi ac mae’n gynllun da—yr oedd yn gynllun ‘Cymru’n Un’—ond nid yw’n gynllun newydd. Y pwynt yr ydym wedi bod yn ei wneud am ysgogiad economaidd yw bod arnom angen swyddi newydd a rhaglenni newydd yn awr.

The Minister mentioned that possibly 10 per cent of excess winter deaths are caused by fuel poverty. I am sure that everyone would agree that that is 10 per cent too much. No-one should be dying of cold and damp in Wales in 2011.

Soniodd y Gweinidog y gallai fod 10 y cant o farwolaethau ychwanegol y gaeaf yn cael eu hachosi gan dlodi tanwydd. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai pawb yn cytuno bod hynny’n 10 y cant yn ormod. Ni ddylai unrhyw un fod yn marw o oerfel a lleithder yng Nghymru yn 2011.

Plaid Cymru is grateful for all the contributions to this debate and the levels of consensus around the issues and the potential solutions. The paper prepared by Dr Calvin Jones and presented by my colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas provides a concrete solution to make a start in turning around the scourge of fuel poverty in Wales. There is much more to do on this agenda and this will not be the last time that you will hear Plaid Cymru talk about fuel poverty. I hope that having brought forward this debate, Members will make sure that this issue remains a political priority over the next few months as the winter threatens to bite hard.

Mae Plaid Cymru yn ddiolchgar am yr holl gyfraniadau i’r ddadl hon a’r lefelau o gonsensws o amgylch y materion a’r datrysiadau posibl. Mae’r papur a baratôdd Dr Calvin Jones a gyflwynodd fy nghydweithiwr Dafydd Elis-Thomas yn darparu datrysiad pendant i ddechrau gwyrdroi melltith tlodi tanwydd yng Nghymru. Mae llawer mwy i’w wneud ar yr agenda hwn ac nid dyma’r tro diwethaf y byddwch yn clywed Plaid Cymru yn siarad am dlodi tanwydd. Yr wyf yn gobeithio, ar ôl cyflwyno’r ddadl hon, y bydd Aelodau yn sicrhau bod y mater hwn yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth wleidyddol dros y misoedd nesaf wrth i’r gaeaf fygwth brathu’n galed.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is that the motion without amendment be agreed. Is there any objection? I see that there is. Therefore, voting on this item will be deferred until voting time. Do three Members wish for the bell to be rung? I see that no-one does, so we will move straight to voting time.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw bod y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio yn cael ei gytuno. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad? Gwelaf nad oes. Felly, caiff pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon ei ohirio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. A oes tri Aelod yn dymuno i’r gloch gael ei chanu? Gwelaf nad oes neb yn gwneud, felly symudwn yn syth at y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Asghar, Mohammad
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Jones, Alun Ffred
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Ramsay, Nick
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Davies, Jocelyn
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Byron
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Asghar, Mohammad
Davies, Andrew R.T.

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Byron
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Asghar, Mohammad
Davies, Jocelyn
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Ramsay, Nick

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Cynnig NDM4871 fel y’i diwygiwyd:

Motion NDM4871 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Yn ystyried Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru ar Reoli Tybaco;

1. Considers the draft Tobacco Control Action Plan for Wales;

2. Yn nodi amcanion y cynllun sef:

2. Notes its aims to:

a) lleihau’r niwed i iechyd y cyhoedd a achosir gan ysmygu yng Nghymru, yn arbennig amddiffyn plant rhag effeithiau niweidiol tybaco; a

a) reduce the harm to public health caused by smoking in Wales, in particular protecting children from the harmful effects of tobacco; and

b) lleihau amlder ysmygu yn ein cymunedau mwyaf amddifad gan fod ysmygu yn un o brif achosion y bwlch mewn disgwyliad oes rhwng pobl gyfoethog a phobl dlawd; ac

b) reduce smoking prevalence amongst our most deprived communities as it is a leading cause for the gap in life expectancy between rich and poor; and

3. Yn nodi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried cyflwyno deddfwriaeth, os dengys tystiolaeth fod yr ymgyrch i ostwng ysmygu mewn ceir sy’n cario pobl ifanc dan oed yn methu â sicrhau gostyngiad sylweddol yn y graddau y mae pobl yn dod i gysylltiad â mwg ail-law.

3. Notes that the Welsh Government will consider bringing forward legislation, if evidence shows the campaign to reduce smoking in cars carrying minors fails to achieve a significant reduction in exposure to second hand smoke.

4. Yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ganolbwyntio ar gynyddu’r niferoedd sy’n manteisio ar gynlluniau rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu er mwyn lleihau’r niwed i iechyd y cyhoedd a achosir gan ysmygu.

4. Believes that the Welsh Government should focus its attention on improving the take-up of smoking cessation schemes in order to reduce the harm to public health caused by smoking.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Jones, Alun Ffred
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Asghar, Mohammad
Sandbach, Antoinette

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Burns, Angela

Derbyniwyd cynnig NDM4871 fel y’i diwygiwyd.
Motion NDM4871 as amended agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
James, Julie
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Roberts, Aled
Williams, Kirsty

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes today’s business.

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